Lower all music when Scoring to Picture

So I am scoring this short film. I have this scene and it is about 2 mins long, anyway I have all my instruments laid out but there are certain parts when I wanted to lower the master of the music to make room for the dialogue. However If I lower the master fader it also lowers the volume of the dialogue/audio from the video. Is there an easy way I can automate and lower all my logic instrumets and audio tracks without affecting the audio from the video as well?

Sure. Make a VCA for the music and just pull it down.

 

Steve

Or you could get retro and use the Ducker plug-in.

Hold Option and click on an insert slot of an AUX or Output channel, then choose Ducker from the Legacy submenu.

Compressor/Limiter can be used in a similar fashion with a sidechain.

For me in these situations, if I'm going to be finicky about the mix of dialogue v. score, I'll bring in the dialogue, bounce the music and do a mix where I can ride both dialogue and music to taste. But that's just my way.

I always have a bus called “music” and if there are sfx, then one for them too. Then you’ve got all your score under one ‘master’ fader before the output.

 

This lets me mix/master the music independently, as well as have another full mix that includes all the sonic elements of the film.

I always have a bus called “music” and if there are sfx, then one for them too. Then you’ve got all your score under one ‘master’ fader before the output.

 

This lets me mix/master the music independently, as well as have another full mix that includes all the sonic elements of the film.

 

So you just bus them regular or create a VCA Master track?

I just bus them then regularly to an aux. If I really want to see, if it helps to see, the relative automation between sfx and music, I create visible tracks for the aux strips in the arrange page. And I usually do a dialogue bus too, because sometimes I want a little extra eq solely for the voices because the addition of music and sfx can change the perception of speech. So that’s handy too.

I know people do it other ways, but i find this simple and it works.

I do this both while I’m composing, so I can mute/solo whole sections to focus on specific things quickly, and I also do it once I bounce the whole score, for a final mix down in a separate project, except without the dialogue bus. Just a final run through if you will.

So you just bus them regular or create a VCA Master track?

It's really a matter of personal preference and workflow. The VCA gives you a volume fader that affects the volume of all the channel strips in the VCA group, without modifying any of the audio signal routing – while a summing stack, or routing all channel strips to a bus creates an audio signal submix, which can allow you to add processing such as compression to the submix of all the audio signals in the group.

So VCA only does volume?

I personally don’t use the vca, and I know many film composers who don’t even know about this fearure. Haha. I suspect the point of bringing the vca faders ingo Logic was to satisfy some folks who grew up and learnt their trade with mixing on big old consoles. And that’s fantastic, because they probably have a very established place in the workflow of many people, but many of us who cut our teeth on DAWs probably have found other ways of working around it or achieving the same result. To answer your question, I think if you’ve never been concerned that your reverb bus is drowning out your mix as you lower your instruments volume, then you probably don’t need it. As I gather that’s the most benififical attribute of the vca. Maybe there are some other good uses for it, but I don’t know them.

Maybe some members can chime in if there are some other good uses for it.

I would be interested as well.

I suspect the point of bringing the vca faders ingo Logic was to satisfy some folks who grew up and learnt their trade with mixing on big old consoles.

That's not specific to VCAs. Nearly every aspect of the Mixer in just about any DAW is based on big old consoles: pan knobs, volume faders, inserts, bus sends, Aux channel strips, Solo, Mute, etc etc...

 

VCA is just one more tool. It allows you to easily adjust the gain on multiple channels at once. Wether you need it or not is completely up to you and your workflow, but let's say you want to easily adjust the level of your drums, or your backup vocals, or all your guitars at once, then the VCA allows you to do that without having to select multiple channel strips in the Mixer.

So VCA only does volume?

In Logic, a VCA fader allows you to adjust Gain but also quickly Solo or Mute the VCA group.

I suspect the point of bringing the vca faders ingo Logic was to satisfy some folks who grew up and learnt their trade with mixing on big old consoles.

That's not specific to VCAs. Nearly every aspect of the Mixer in just about any DAW is based on big old consoles: pan knobs, volume faders, inserts, bus sends, Aux channel strips, Solo, Mute, etc etc...

 

VCA is just one more tool. It allows you to easily adjust the gain on multiple channels at once. Wether you need it or not is completely up to you and your workflow, but let's say you want to easily adjust the level of your drums, or your backup vocals, or all your guitars at once, then the VCA allows you to do that without having to select multiple channel strips in the Mixer.

 

Yes yes, of course our mixer gui in Logic is based on console workflow. What I meant, is that, since there are already ways to do the same thing that was asked by the thread's author, this new option, of a VCA, I suspect was most likely geared towards people whose professional workflows were learnt on console-only systems. I mean, it's right there in the name. "Voltage Controlled Amplifier" If it was marketed/aimed at digitally-raised producers, it would have been named something more, well logical. As there's no voltage control going on in my Macbook pro. Don't get me wrong, it is great addition, but it's not in my workflow, and I haven't found a use for it, but thats because I learnt all my audio work in the early 2000's on Digital Performer. The name, says it all. The analogy to pan, volume, inserts, doesn't quite hold up, because those terms have objective meaning in the digital domain as well as in the analog. But VCA, is clearly something only people with some specialized knowledge, gained from work on analog consoles would understand.

The analogy to pan, volume, inserts, doesn't quite hold up, because those terms have objective meaning in the digital domain as well as in the analog. But VCA, is clearly something only people with some specialized knowledge, gained from work on analog consoles would understand.

I see what you mean.

I'm actually doing some research on the subject right now. There is a good article about what it is, from an analog perspective, and then how it translates into logic. I've been lucky to work on some consoles before, some beauties actually, but I definitely don't know what/how/why/when I'd use it. And am quite ignorant to it's benefits. (aside from the reverb bus example). But I would be very interested to hear about reasons why to use it from any members that swear by it, or find it advantageous.

And am quite ignorant to it's benefits.

Let's say you have various channel strips with their outputs routed to different things (some to the stereo out, some to busses...). You want to have a way to quickly solo, mute or adjust their volume together. How do you do it?

And am quite ignorant to it's benefits.

Let's say you have various channel strips with their outputs routed to different things (some to the stereo out, some to busses...). You want to have a way to quickly solo, mute or adjust their volume together. How do you do it?

 

Hmmm, good example. I guess the way I lay my projects out, I don't come across that problem so much, and when I do, I most likely, rather clumsily, batch select and then mute/solo etc.

 

So, are you saying that, for example say, when I'm working on my film 'music' aux bus (as stated in my example earlier in the thread), and inside that group I have various routing, guitars to their own bus, then to the 'music' bus, but the bass guitar goes directly to the 'music' aux, is this a place I would use the VCA? To move the guitars and bass together?

 

Can't I achieve this in a summing stack as well? I don't use summing stacks often, but I thought that's what they were good for.

Can't I achieve this in a summing stack as well? I don't use summing stacks often, but I thought that's what they were good for.

No, because summing stacks change the output routing of the channel strips in the stack. If you don't want the output routings to change, you can use a VCA.

ahhhhhh! got it! Thanks David! I just hope I can remember/recognize this benefit when I come across a situation where it would be helpful. Haha. Thats the hardest part, remembering all the options you have in Logic. I KNOW for a fact that I do some things the long and slow way, totally inefficient, but it's from years of using Logic, and then when new features get added, unless you learn them immediately and study them, it's difficult, when on a deadline, to all of a sudden halt, think "hmm there's a new feature in logic that could potentially make this a time saver, I should learn it". I know it's self discipline, but not enough hours in the day. Even though I've read it and gone through all the exercises, I still go back to chapters in your book and try to implement shortcuts that would be beneficial. Just so much to be aware of. Cheers.

I wonder what would be a good, simple quick exercise to show the benefits of the VCA would be?