Controller Assignments Duplicating Themselves

Hey guys, I'm experiencing a weird bug with my Controller Assignments. I recently updated my master template, deleted and old controller assignments and reprogrammed everything. Now they're randomly duplicating themselves, breaking the assignments. If I go in and delete the duplicates, the assignment works perfectly, but the next day, I'll have more duplicates. It can be 1 up to 3 copies of the original. Any idea what the hell's going on here and how to stop it?

• MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015
• 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7
• 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
• AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2048 MB
• Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB
• Logic Pro 10.3.2
• Line6 KB37 Audio IO/Controller
• Nektar Impact LX25 Controller
• M Audio Axium Controller

Really hoping someone can help on this question, as I'm also experiencing exactly the same. It's so frustrating. Once I realized it was happening, I deleted hundreds of entries, set everything up again, and it was working properly. But only for a short time - soon after, they start to duplicate again, and then increasingly functions stop working on my midi controllers.

I'm using a s88 Komplete Kontrol keyboard and Korg nanokontrol2 - these seem stable and fine. The thing that is very unstable is the Xtouch Universal. When I look at the controller assignments, I'm getting duplicates which seem to relate to both the s88 AND the Xtouch, but it's only the Xtouch for which I'm having problems.

Please help!

Really hoping someone can help with this, as I'm experiencing exactly the same. I'm using a Korg Nanokontrol2 and Native Instruments s88 keyboard, and functionality on those is very stable. However, I also use a Behringer XTouch Universal, and this is very problematic. I only recently realised the problem with the duplicating controller assignments, and whereas I see these for the s88 too, it's only the XTouch were the functionality is affected. I deleted all the extraneous assignments, got everything set up correctly again, and all worked fine for a short time, but soon, the assignments duplicated multiple times, and as they did, I would start to lose various functions on the XTouch, which seems to get progressively worse.

Can anyone help?

It really isn't clear what your problem is. Any specific controller assignment? What do you actually mean by that statement?

I have a X-Touch and have no problems with "duplicating controller assignments" - one, because I have no idea what that means, two I just don't have problems with it.

Do you have the X-Touch showing up more than once in the Control Surface Setup window? Do you have the X-Touch as its own "group" or does it appear in a group with your other controllers?

I only ask because I have been diving heavily into learning how to make better use of my X-Touch - loving it - works great.

It was mentioned on another forum that my problem wasn't well specified, so here's further detail:

• I have 3 external midi devices: Native Instruments s88 keyboard, Behringer X-Touch Universal (for mixing/DAW control) and Korg Nanokontrol 2 (used for CC control); all are connected to my computer via USB
• When I connect the XTouch, it is correctly recognized as a control surface, as is the s88; initially, both work fine.
• Over time, the s88 (and nanokontrol2) continue to work fine, but the XTouch quickly starts to have problems (eg, a button, fader or jog wheel stops working)
• When I go into Controller Assignments in Logic (v10.4.2), which I'm using on a 2017 iMac (4.2GHz i7, 32 GB), I see that there are numerous random new controller assignments, that I didn't set up (at least, not intentionally!).
• When I delete all of these (there can be many, many of them!), I can get the XTouch working again, but over time, the problem recurs.

For now, I'm leaving the XTouch switched off and disconnected to see if that stops the random controller assignments being generated, and I can thereby isolate the source of the problem.

I've been using Logic for years, and have had *extensive* work done in the controller assignments window, across multiple control surface and thousands of custom parameters - I've fairly familiar with the behaviours and bugs with controller assignments - and I've never had randomly duplicated assignments, so the issue is strange.

Presumably the S88 and X-Touch have proper control surface support in Logic (ie they have a dedicated control surface module), rather than just relying on manual assignments?

Do you get these phantom assignments across all devices, or only for one device (ie, are their dupe assignments for the X-Touch *only*?) If so, this will help isolate the problem. When are these assignments created? Only when starting Logic? Or throughout the session? is it all assignments, or only specific ones? (BTW I'm assuming you're not doing something silly like leaving Logic in Learn mode!)

Are the random assignments *identical*, or are there differences? Specifically, are the input/output port/channel assignments the same on the dupes? You might need to check the menus here, as it's possible to have MIDI ports look or be named the same, but they are actually different (for technical reasons which I won't go into too much here). Sometimes reselecting these in the menus will sort them out and reallocate them to the correct port.

Basically, on the information you've given, I suspect what's happening is something along the lines of Logic expecting to see a defined control surface on a certain set of MIDI ports - when it does, and the assignments for it don't exist, the control surface module will copy the default set of assignments into the controller assignments so it can work.

But somewhere along the way, the driver is not communicating the MIDI port correctly, so Logic no longer sees the control surface on the specified port, but instead, sees a *new* control surface on a new port (which may be named/identified as the existing port), and thus, copies the default set of assignments into the controller assignments window again (targetting the correct port), and thus you start to get dupes.

Thanks for your reply des99 - incredibly helpful. I've only recently realised that the duplicate controller assignments was an issue, so I don't yet have a good handle on when they're caused, and having deleted them, how consistent they are, so I'm going to try to watch the process more now to help diagnose it. Will report back once I get a more detailed handle on the problem.

facej - thanks too for your questions: the X-Touch and the s88 are correctly categorized as separate control surfaces, group 1 and group 2, and just 1 instance showing up for each.

Thanks again for your help.

Note - the X-Touch claims to be a Logic Control/Mackie Control - does a darn good imitation too!

One thing that I found helpful was to make sure that "Bypass all while in background" was un-checked in the control surfaces preferences menu. I have "Resolution of Relative Controls" set to 128, and "Maximum MIDI Bandwidth" at 50%.

I will also note that in the "MIDI Controllers" panel of Control Surface preferences I have my KORG controllers un-checked for "auto" loading. I have a nanoKEY and a nanoKONTROL2 plugged in to a USB "hub" coming out of the back of the X-Touch. When I had the nanoKEY in "auto" I would get lots of weird entries under "nanoKEY" in the Controller Assignments window.

OK, so this is an example of the problem. Here you can see that there are 3 of these entries that already have 8 different assignments, none of which were deliberately set by me. You can also see that the assignments are greyed out. I can select/delete them, but they are distinguishable from the ones I've actually set myself, (eg in the 1 assignment for solo mode), since these are not greyed out. I don't know where these random assignments are coming from, but since it says 'Mackie Control', I'm assuming this is from the XTouch, since this is using a Mackie protocol (though on other occasions, the random assignments refer to a Note, not Mackie Control).

I've now started to experience functionality problems on the XTouch again: this specific problem I don't think is related to the controller assignments above (I was just showing this for illustration, and since I don't know which controller assignments specifically might be causing this problem), but now when I move the fader for track 1, the fader for Stereo Out moves at the same time; when I move the fader for track 2, the fader for Master moves at the same time; other faders are correctly controlling the volume for their corresponding track (for now!). Other problems I've experienced previously (though not at the moment): pressing the select button for a channel, and it lights along with the track next to it; the jog wheel moves in very large increments (eg 100 bars!); buttons stop working (such as Click, Solo and Cycle). I can't pin these aberrant changes in functionality to the strange changes in the controller assignments, except to say that if I delete them all, I'm able to start again with a functioning unit.

Urgghh.... Please help!

These are all assignments made by your control surface - they are MIDI assignments that are triggering key command operations, and there are assignments across 8 MIDI channels, for the (presumably) 8 solo buttons on your controller. No dupes there. Individual assignments for each button that has some functionality on your controller.

I can't see anything wrong with those assignments in the screenshot (but then I don't know how your control surface is set up).

My guess is in this case, a modifier plus any of the 8 solo keys on your controller would activate the clear solo function, which is pretty standard behaviour.

I'm not sure offhand why they are greyed out, without checking (not in front of Logic right now), but I suspect it's because that command is currently not active in the Mode the controller is currently in (eg, hypothetically let's say your solo buttons could also be mute buttons, depending on a mode switch toggle. If you were currently in Mute mode, the Solo key commands aren't active and are thus greyed out. If you switched to Solo mode, the Solo key command assignments would now be displayed as active.)

So here's another example. The Xtouch stopped working, and the only thing I could do to restart it was to delete the Control Surface profile. Then after power cycling the unit, it was recognized again by Logic, a new control surface profile is generated and the unit works again (though the problem of crosstalk between faders is still there). When I look at the Controller Assignments, you can see in the Zone column that after the first 9 rows, there is an entry for the s88 (listed as Komplete Kontrol S-Series); after this, there are entries which relate to this unit (they duplicate previous entries above it, but I don't think that's a problem?); after this, you see TWO entries for the Mackie Control, as well as additional entries that the XTouch controls. When I first install the unit, I have only 1 Mackie Control row, but over time, this starts to duplicate. What you're seeing in the screen is the first duplication. If I continue to use the unit, I will see more and more of these.

I really hope this helps diagnose the problem, as it's driving me insane!!

What assignments are in those two zones, and do they have the same incoming MIDI port/channels?

It's difficult to diagnose though when you have multiple controllers active at once - to troubleshoot, I recommend removing all but one, and troubleshooting just with one, to keep things as simple as possible and try to find when the issue is happening.

It's also an idea to completely reset the CS prefs (ie, trash ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs , if you haven't done that yet, in case there is corruption (I had a serious issue where 10.4.2 wouldn't correctly load CS prefs from 10.3.x properly which was causing all kinds of bad behaviour).

In the 2 Mackie Control Zones: 1 is empty (just shows 'No Zone')' when I click on the other, it 'No Mode' in the Mode column, and then a bunch of things listed in the Control column (Time Code, Beats LED, Time Display, Rude Solo LED, Name/Value, SMPTE/Beats, F1-F8, Save, Undo, Cancel, Enter, User Switch A, User Switch B, External Control).

Yes, I've disconnected the nanokontrol2, and am just using the XTouch for now, but also the s88 as the keyboard. I keep trying to 'cause' the problem, so that I can figure out what it is, but without having the keyboard attached, it's difficult to know what to manipulate to try to cause something to go wrong.

I have indeed deleted the CS prefs: when I want to go back to zero, I delete this, delete the control surface profile, reboot and load a file in Logic which has no midi data, but was working with all controllers when I saved it, so I can keep at least 1 thing constant!

GHoney said:

In the 2 Mackie Control Zones: 1 is empty (just shows 'No Zone')' when I click on the other, it 'No Mode' in the Mode column, and then a bunch of things listed in the Control column (Time Code, Beats LED, Time Display, Rude Solo LED, Name/Value, SMPTE/Beats, F1-F8, Save, Undo, Cancel, Enter, User Switch A, User Switch B, External Control).

The second one you describe is basically what I see here for my MCU, but I also have another one for an MCU Extender which currently shows what you see for the first one - just pretty much blank, likely because the Extender doesn't require stuff in there (it doesn't have all the transport section of the MCU etc).

Without knowing which control surface is generating these, it's difficult to suggest much, other than individually troubleshooting them so you know which is creating these.

GHoney said:

Yes, I've disconnected the nanokontrol2, and am just using the XTouch for now, but also the s88 as the keyboard.

So you have two control surfaces active? Like I say, I suggest troubleshooting with just one, it will be easier to keep track on what's going on - otherwise, it's difficult to figure out which assignments are created or changed for which control surface, unless you start inspecting individual assignments.

GHoney said:

I keep trying to 'cause' the problem, so that I can figure out what it is, but without having the keyboard attached, it's difficult to know what to manipulate to try to cause something to go wrong.

Well, presumably, using the X-Touch... Or if you suspect the keyboard, then just have that running, and remove the X-Touch.

You don't *have* to of course, but trying to simplify as much as possible is really a key troubleshooting technique so you don't end up chasing your tail unnecessarily. I really recommend this.

GHoney said:

I have indeed deleted the CS prefs: when I want to go back to zero, I delete this, delete the control surface profile, reboot and load a file in Logic which has no midi data, but was working with all controllers when I saved it, so I can keep at least 1 thing constant!

Ok, cool.

Thanks so much for your help, it's really appreciated. So, in the spirt of simplifying, I deleted all entries in the controller assignments. I then connected only 1 device at a time. First the XTouch - having cleared all the entries, once I reconnected the XTouch, it was working perfectly again. I then look at the Controller Assignments, and see it has populated a bunch of entries. I then turn on my s88 - it is also working perfectly; switching it on causes no additional entries in the controller assignments (and indeed whilst there is an entry in the 'Zone' for Komplete Kontrol (which is the s88), if I click on it, it's blank inside. I then turn on the Nanokontrol2; similarly, working perfectly, and has no impact on the controller assignments. Everything working perfectly (if only it would stay like this!)

So...

- at least I know what it should look like when it's stable! I have a baseline (see below)!

- it's definitely the the controller assignments that are affecting the XTouch functionality: removing the additional entries immediately cures the problem; the other 2 (s88 and nanokontrol) seem to be somewhat independent from this

- I now need to find out anything I can do that causes additional entries to appear, I'm going to through each controller (with the other 2 switched off) and systematically make changes and immediately check the controller assignments to try to isolate the problem.

Again, thanks so much for your help.

Sure, find out what you can, and if you need someone to run things past, post back and I'll try to help.

It's also a good idea to make a backup of known good CS pref files you can quickly revert to if need be (I do this.)

Are you on 10.4.2 BTW?

Aha..., we're getting somewhere. In the past if I was having problems, I would delete the control surface profile, then power cycle the unit, so that it would create a new one. I just noticed (with nothing else attached, only the XTouch), that if I do this, that is sufficient to create a new entry in the controller assignments, as a new zone. It looks like this might have been causing the conflict... Before I did this, I was using the full functionality of the XTouch, and could not break it (man, this thing is cool, now that it's working!). I have a feeling that when I deleted all of the controller assignments earlier, and started from scratch, this also probably helped, and they was likely something in there that had become corrupted.

I'll keep testing, but I'll least I now know one way that breaks it (and one way to get back to baseline). Now to see if there's any interaction with the other 2 controllers...

I took your advice and copied the CS (and yes, I'm on 10.4.2). Definitely making progress - thanks des99.

So, I think that's it - all sorted! In case anyone ends up following this at a later date who might be having similar problems, here's what I found:

• deleting ALL the controller assignments (Logic Pro X>Control Surfaces>Controller Assignments), and the Control surface profile (Logic Pro X>Control Surfaces>Setup), in addition to the com.apple.logic.pro.cs file (in Library/Preferences) is a good way to get back to a baseline if you're having problems.
• if you need to delete the control surface profile for any reason, you must go back into controller assignments and delete the entries for that control surface, otherwise residual files will be left over which can cause conflicts.
• when I deleted all the entries for the Nanokontrol2, it meant that the DAW control buttons that I had previously manually assigned are no longer working, as would be expected. The nanokontrol2 can work in 2 modes: either for DAW/mixer control, or as I use it, for CC control). Since I don't need the DAW control functionality (this is what I use the XTouch for), I haven't reassigned these buttons - I'm not sure if this was also creating a conflict, it's quite possible, but since the system is stable right now without it, I'm playing it safe!
• I've tried loading this configuration with various Logic files (in case there's any kind of preferences that get stored with the file itself), and all seems good...

Ok, so for now, all fixed!! Will report back if things start to fall apart, but if not, huge thanks again to des99.

facej said:

Note - the X-Touch claims to be a Logic Control/Mackie Control - does a darn good imitation too!

One thing that I found helpful was to make sure that "Bypass all while in background" was un-checked in the control surfaces preferences menu. I have "Resolution of Relative Controls" set to 128, and "Maximum MIDI Bandwidth" at 50%.

I will also note that in the "MIDI Controllers" panel of Control Surface preferences I have my KORG controllers un-checked for "auto" loading. I have a nanoKEY and a nanoKONTROL2 plugged in to a USB "hub" coming out of the back of the X-Touch. When I had the nanoKEY in "auto" I would get lots of weird entries under "nanoKEY" in the Controller Assignments window.

Thanks for this - it matches my setup 100%, except that you have your nano plugged into the XTouch (not directly into your computer?) That's interesting - I'll have to give this a try. Cheers.

This has been so helpful. In digging into the XTouch and really getting to understand the Controller Assignments in Logic much more fully with the help of the on this thread, I've been able to increase the functionality of the unit from where I had it before.

There was an article in this forum (here: https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=128720) that talked about using Lemur to control Orchestral sections (Hans Zimmer style!) via Controller Assignments. I realised that this could therefore be done using the XTouch, and now have it set up so that with a single button can call up any section of instruments, and so that only these are displayed. That makes a large unwieldy Logic template much easier to get around, and makes the XTouch much more useful to me.

Thank you to speakerfood on the other thread for the info on the Lemur that really helped. This is such a great forum!