Best Method? Align Tape Transfer Project to Grid or Make Tighter

Calling all Gurus -

 

Kindly indicate if this is not the correct forum for this topic. Moderator, feel free to move.

 

In Logic 10.3.2, I have:

• Project recorded on top-drawer tape tape machine, using a mechanical click metronome. The song is 4 minutes so who knows how steady that mechanical metronome was. The musicians were human so they stray, too.

• Project fidelity is very high (30ips 1/2-inch tape, Neumann mics).

• The performance(s) cannot be replicated in a new standalone project from scratch.

• There are 4 tracks, all 1st generation (ancient tape term). Plus two 2nd generation "submix" tracks.

• Original recorded track was acoustic guitar (which played along with metronome)

• Last two recorded tracks were bass and a single track of live drums. (a limitation of a 4 track recorder!)

• The resulting 6 tracks are reasonably aligned to themselves per the original recording.

 

I now want to add to this project using other instruments, etc. Mainly new Lead vocal and BG vocals.

I also want to tighten up these tracks to be a bit more time-aligned and get them onto a grid in LPX. I'm not going for an artificial quantized feel, but I do want things tighter.

 

I've used BPM Counter to analyze the tracks and get these ranges of beats per minute.

• Drums 134.6–136.5

• Bass 135.3–136.3

• Electric Gtr (arpeggiated all the way though) 135.3–135.7

• Acoustic Gtr (arpeggiated all the way through) 134.8–135.9

• Sub Mix Mono Left (all tracks except Drums and Bass) 135.2–136.7 (I presume the right channel would be essentially the same.

 

QUESTIONS:

I get confused between beat mapping and flex time and don't know the best approach to get things tighter before I lay down new vocals. I'm willing to put in the effort, however long it takes, to get things better. I just don't know how best to proceed.

 

I know if I use flex time, I want "sliced" for the drums but don't know which method for the other instruments. It seems like the choice is critical.

 

Sorry for all this detail, but this project enters a realm I'm not familiar with.

 

Thanks.

...fwiw...I'm deep into a 9 song multi-track project, basement recording, great musicians, terrible micing/room acoustics. When I started out I thought aligning to the grid was the way to go. Not so much. A few weeks in, and no joy, so I dropped that approach and instead focused in on the drummer and using a "groove track." Much success! (and I am a heavy Melodyn4 user, for lots of stuff, but not in this situation). The additional tracks can be added listening to what has been recorded already, no need to "lock" to a grid...hth.../s~

Thanks steveLPX!

I played with a groove track, using the drums also, but then the bass (at least) started skipping/stuttering notes. Can that stuttering on non-drum tracks be fixed while still using drums as groove track? I certainly am no stranger to recording without a grid (after all, that's what TAPE is). I thought with intended Melodyne, etc. It might be worth it. Sounds like maybe I don't need to go that way.

 

Anyone else care to weigh in?

I wouldn't use a Groove Track unless the project was aligned to grid first! It may work... but that's not the way it's designed to work.

 

@rickenbacker, in your situation I would use the tightest track of the four, and beat map it. Beat mapping doesn't affect the audio recording's tempo or playback speed at all. Meaning it will sound exactly the same after as it did before. On the other hand it will change your tempo map in your project so that the click in Logic has the same tempo fluctuations as the audio recording. After a successful beat mapping session you should be able to turn on the click in Logic and hear it perfectly in time with your recording.

 

Next you can take care of using Flex to adjust timing imperfections on the 3 remaining tracks. Meaning if one of them is slightly late at some point, you adjust it to be perfectly in time with the first track. That does change the tempo and playback speed of the audio recording, which in this case is what you want. Flex is used in this case to tighten things up.

 

Hope that helps, let me know if you have further questions.

Thank you, David. I didn't find this in your book.

 

Question: can you do the flextime stuff first, followed by beat mapping of the best track? The reason I ask is I have started down the flex time first and I'm now wondering if I have to start over from scratch. I fixed approximately a dozen timing events through half of the song.

 

And while I'm at it, I've never figured out how to UNDO all flextime edits. What I inevitably do is start a brand new project from scratch, being in the raw tracks (at least I think they're raw) and start over. Advice?

 

Luckily, I seldom use flex in normal start from scratch projects.

No, don't Flex anything before you've beat mapped.

 

If you've already Flexed the audio but need to beat map, then in Flex View, control-click the audio region and choose Reset All Flex Edits. Then select the region and choose Edit > Tempo > Remove Tempo Information from Audio File. Beat map. Now choose Edit > Tempo > Export Tempo Information to Audio File.

Thank you, sir.

I will try this in next couple of days. Certainly not in your book. ???

 

I've used BPM Counter as shown in OP, do I first set an approx tempo of 136 (or 68)? Before beat mapping?

Thank you, sir.

I will try this in next couple of days. Certainly not in your book. ???

 

I've used BPM Counter as shown in OP, do I first set an approx tempo of 136 (or 68)? Before beat mapping?

Choose whatever tempo makes the most sense musically when the click is turned on along with your music playing back (if you can make abstraction of the slight discrepancies).

 

No, beat mapping isn't covered in my book, as it is more advanced than most of the material in the book!

Thanks, David. I've done beat mapping in LP9. Tedious but OK. It would be nice to have an advanced book by you (or someone) but I expect the market would shrink. I do use Groove3 for stuff but Katzenberg (I think his name) is so fast and matter-of-fact in his presentations that he's hard to follow for the several hour-long tutorials.