Nested sequences/non-linear writing possible in Logic?

Hi There,

 

I've been bouncing between hardware and DAWs for writing and tonight I've realised why. I find that the arrange window kills creativity because its linear, but writing is non-linear.

 

Does Logic, or any DAW/plugin, allow non-linear tools like reusable chunks and nested sequences?

 

Nest sequence 1 inside sequence 2 and override a track or only override certain notes in a track using tools like exclude, subtract, intersect, add, randomise (and other mathematic conditions) to create randomisation/variation.

 

Once you’re done writing, drag sequences into the arrange window as instances, set repeats (loop verse one 8x etc) and build the song. Then record linear tracks like vocals and work with the arrange window as it was meant to be used, for linear arrangement.

 

I've found Elektron/MPC better for writing but both fall down on arrangement/finishing. However DAWs and/or plugins could do both in theory, right?

 

Anyone know of reliable software tools that allow for this kind of workflow/quick idea creation and iteration?

 

Cheers

 

Ben

Thanks Dan, I've just downloaded Live and you're right. I'd always assumed Live was for DJs but the bite-sized method of building arrangements through clips and broadly speaking, the non-linear session view is what I'm looking for. Thanks heaps! Cheers

I suppose it's only a matter of time before GarageBand's clip launching makes it into Logic Pro?

 

Yes, I was playing with that as well but everyone (MPC, Live, GB) misses a trick and assumes only live playing/jamming. So as soon as you try creating a song by chaining patterns or recording a sequence, you break the non-linear workflow.

 

Even though MPC has a song mode it’s limited (Akai tried killing it), this forces you to convert to sequence which then breaks the non-linear flow, same with Ableton Live as far as I can tell so far.

 

Bit of a shame really as there’s no reason why computers couldn’t allow non-linear workflows, Finalcut Pro, AfterEffects and Premiere all have nested sequences for example.

 

Cheers

I haven't played with GB much, but this looks very interesting. Logic could leap from over DP Cubase etc. if they had a mode like this. Does it play back audio files as well?

I suppose it's only a matter of time before GarageBand's clip launching makes it into Logic Pro?

 

GarageBand.png

 

10.4? seriously, am surprised we don't have this in LXP yet...

I haven't played with GB much, but this looks very interesting. Logic could leap from over DP Cubase etc. if they had a mode like this. Does it play back audio files as well?

Yes. On the screenshot, the yellow regions are Drummer regions, the green ones MIDI regions, and the blue ones Audio regions. The only difference with rectangular regions is that those play circularly.

What is the difference between clip launching and putting a bunch of regions on different tracks in Logic, and then erasing, copying, muting them etc? Is it just turning on and off things that other people created/recorded?

What is the difference between clip launching and putting a bunch of regions on different tracks in Logic, and then erasing, copying, muting them etc? Is it just turning on and off things that other people created/recorded?

Wether you use clip launching or sequence regions linearly in Logic, you're playing back Drummer, Audio and MIDI regions: they could contain material that was created by you or someone else in both cases.

 

The difference is clip launching allows you to make decisions on the fly: while your arrangement is playing back, you click a region, and the next time a new measure starts, that region plays along with the other ones. By contrast, in Logic, you have to arrange your regions on the grid before you start playback, so you can't make those decisions on the fly.

I see. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I wouldn't be surprised if a version of clip launching makes it into the next version of Logic. In the meantime you can rewire Live, or another approach for non-linear music generation is to use the scripter, to trigger random midi events, as demonstrated by Eno in one of his many videos online. If you don't have Live, a much cheaper option is to use an iPad. There are several apps which launch clips, one of the best is blocs, and you can sync that with Logic.

Besides Ableton Live, you might also want to look at Bitwig Studio (created by some ex-Ableton folks I believe). I think Bitwig Studio has more MIDI devices, and maybe finer control of modulation/MIDI parameters. If I recall correctly, at least in Ableton Live, while you are selecting clips to play in whatever order you like, you can also be recording the results of what you are doing (linearly) in Ableton's "arrange" window. So you should be able to capture your (non-linear) performance. You could subsequently cut that rendered recording into clips and repeat, mix, stir well, etc.

Sorry, missed these replies. While some only think in terms of live clip launching, it’s actually a really powerful song writing arrangement tool.

 

A lot of us approach song arrangement by building a bunch of non-linear hooks/ideas/patterns/variations. But most software that uses clips, forces you to print or lock-in a linear arrangement. So what’s wrong with that?

 

Well, if you want to tweak the kick pattern in the verse, you have to manually update the pattern wherever it appears, or tweak the pattern and re-print the arrangement. With a non-linear approach, you change the 2 bar kick pattern once and it auto-updates all patterns/variations that use it.

 

But more creatively, thinking in terms of patterns encourages non-linear thinking, different pattern lengths, poly-rhythms etc. Lots of hardware stuff does this but then lacks a decent arranger/song mode, or like newer MPC’s (or Ableton) prints the arrangement breaking the instant, pattern-based tweakable workflow. But software could do both (so could hardware).

 

I guess it’s a different (non-linear) way of making music that many find more playful/musical/creative so long as you can have the best of both worlds.