Non-destructive MIDI region splitting

I've actually purchased the Logic Pro X 10.3 book from this site just to help me with this and I still can't find the answer: Is there a way to retain the notes before a split on a MIDI region? For example, if I split a MIDI region into two and move the second part somewhere, that when I drag the left edge of the region out the notes from before the split would be there (like in Ableton, Studio One, REAPER....really like in every other DAW). Thanks.

Is there a way to retain the notes before a split on a MIDI region?

Choose "Keep" when you get the pop-up message after you split a MIDI region.

........... Edited June 24, 2018 by ValliSoftware

It's easier just showing you in a video, so here you go.

This only applies to Apple Loop MIDI regions though, yes? Not your own MIDI regions?

....... Edited June 24, 2018 by ValliSoftware

This only applies to Apple Loop MIDI regions though, yes? Not your own MIDI regions?

If Albeton, Studio One and Reaper are able to do the same thing that I showed in my video, it's because each handles that in it's own "internal way".

 

If you create a MIDI Region in Studio One and cut it and export that CUT MIDI Region and try to import that into Albeton let's say, Ableton will be able to see that MIDI Region but if you try to expand it like what I showed in my video, it will not see any of the original MIDI Region before it was cut in Studio One.

That's because MIDI 1.0 Specifications doesn't support saving "original MIDI Region" to be recalled later when you expand a MIDI Region. That's only possible within each sequencer using it's own "internal way".

 

So to answer your question, yes, Logic Pro X's "internal way" is using Green Apple Loops, not Blue Apple Loops.

So in short, (even though every other DAW on the market can do this) Logic Pro X can't do this??

So in short, (even though every other DAW on the market can do this) Logic Pro X can't do this??

Wait, did you try the thing I suggested (Choose "Keep" when you get the pop-up message after you split a MIDI region.)? I tried it, and it definitely retains the MIDI notes when you drag the region out.

So in short, (even though every other DAW on the market can do this) Logic Pro X can't do this??

Wait, did you try the thing I suggested (Choose "Keep" when you get the pop-up message after you split a MIDI region.)? I tried it, and it definitely retains the MIDI notes when you drag the region out.

Choosing "Keep" doesn't refer to retaining the notes of the entire clip. I appreciate you trying to help me...most other users are too tribal to come to grips with the fact that they're beloved DAW is seriously lacking.

 

I'm trying to make the change to Logic Pro X but it's hard to take a program seriously that doesn't do something all of the other DAWs on the market does. SMH

Choosing "Keep" doesn't refer to retaining the notes of the entire clip.

Ok, could you please upload a link or something of this feature in the other DAWs you mentioned because I'm obviously not getting the question... I'm still open to help not just because Logic is my beloved DAW, but because I know that some of its features are a bit hidden.

Choosing "Keep" doesn't refer to retaining the notes of the entire clip.

Ok, could you please upload a link or something of this feature in the other DAWs you mentioned because I'm obviously not getting the question... I'm still open to help not just because Logic is my beloved DAW, but because I know that some of its features are a bit hidden.

It would be hard to find a video breaking something as simple as that down since every other DAW does it.

 

Basically, the feature is like so:

1. I record a midi clip with the notes C, D, E, F, and G

2. I split the clip before the F, G.

3. I then move that clip and when I drag the left edge out, it would reveal the C, D, E as if the clip was never split.

Basically, the feature is like so:

1. I record a midi clip with the notes C, D, E, F, and G

2. I split the clip before the F, G.

3. I then move that clip and when I drag the left edge out, it would reveal the C, D, E as if the clip was never split.

 

Ah, I get it now. I thought you were talking about sustained long notes that split.

 

I just tried it, and yes, you're right. Logic doesn't handle MIDI region splitting that way, I don't think it ever has... unless someone else can chime in and correct me! To my knowledge, it's not possible to do what you're asking in Logic. If this is a feature that is important to you, you might want to postpone your plans of moving over to Logic. It just doesn't have it.

 

Honestly, I've never 'missed' this feature in all of my years of using Logic. I didn't know it was a thing until you brought it up. Once I split a MIDI region, I don't see a need to drag it out. When I want to split a region, I have a deliberate reason to split it. If wanted to retain the region for whatever reason, I would quickly hit my key command for 'Repeat Region' and then do my edits on the 'original' MIDI region. Or I would utitlize the new Alternatives feature.

Basically, the feature is like so:

1. I record a midi clip with the notes C, D, E, F, and G

2. I split the clip before the F, G.

3. I then move that clip and when I drag the left edge out, it would reveal the C, D, E as if the clip was never split.

 

Ah, I get it now. I thought you were talking about sustained long notes that split.

 

I just tried it, and yes, you're right. Logic doesn't handle MIDI region splitting that way, I don't think it ever has... unless someone else can chime in and correct me! To my knowledge, it's not possible to do what you're asking in Logic. If this is a feature that is important to you, you might want to postpone your plans of moving over to Logic. It just doesn't have it.

 

Honestly, I've never 'missed' this feature in all of my years of using Logic. I didn't know it was a thing until you brought it up. Once I split a MIDI region, I don't see a need to drag it out. When I want to split a region, I have a deliberate reason to split it. If I wanted to retain the region for whatever reason, I would quickly hit my key command for 'Repeat Region' and then do my edits on the 'original' MIDI region. Or I would utilize the new Alternatives feature.

Thanks so much for your help. I now know I just had to find another DAW. I was originally told that Logic's MIDI was as good as Cubase, DP, or REAPER so I wanted to see. I'm sorry to find out that's not the case. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I now know I just had to find another DAW. I was originally told that Logic's MIDI was as good as Cubase, DP, or REAPER so I wanted to see. I'm sorry to find out that's not the case. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

No problem, I'm happy to help when I can. Yeah, I think you should always use a DAW that suits your needs. I don't think a single perfect DAW exists out there, but Logic is perfect for me, at least for my needs specifically. Then there's those who use multiple DAWs for different applications (not that I'm one of them, but not that theres' anything wrong with that either). Good luck in your quest

 

Ah, I get it now. I thought you were talking about sustained long notes that split.

 

I just tried it, and yes, you're right. Logic doesn't handle MIDI region splitting that way, I don't think it ever has... unless someone else can chime in and correct me! To my knowledge, it's not possible to do what you're asking in Logic. If this is a feature that is important to you, you might want to postpone your plans of moving over to Logic. It just doesn't have it.

 

Honestly, I've never 'missed' this feature in all of my years of using Logic. I didn't know it was a thing until you brought it up. Once I split a MIDI region, I don't see a need to drag it out. When I want to split a region, I have a deliberate reason to split it. If I wanted to retain the region for whatever reason, I would quickly hit my key command for 'Repeat Region' and then do my edits on the 'original' MIDI region. Or I would utilize the new Alternatives feature.

Thanks so much for your help. I now know I just had to find another DAW. I was originally told that Logic's MIDI was as good as Cubase, DP, or REAPER so I wanted to see. I'm sorry to find out that's not the case. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

Honestly, I echo this. Not that Logic is perfect, but your missing feature is something I typically do in 1 second: copy(cmd c), paste in place (cmd opt v), drag edges. Done.

Thanks so much for your help. I now know I just had to find another DAW. I was originally told that Logic's MIDI was as good as Cubase, DP, or REAPER so I wanted to see. I'm sorry to find out that's not the case. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

Honestly, I echo this. Not that Logic is perfect, but your missing feature is something I typically do in 1 second: copy(cmd c), paste in place (cmd opt v), drag edges. Done.

Paste in place? Cmd opt v? That's nowhere to be found.

Its shift, sorry. It's called "Paste at original position"

Has anything happened on this in the last two years by any chance? Like the OP, I am looking to scissor a midi region and have each of the two new regions retain all the notes of the original region before the scissors.

 

Meaning: midi region has four notes, CDEF. make a scissor on the region between D and E so you have two regions: One with notes C and D and another with notes E and F. drag the two regions away from each other. now take region EF and pull the left edge handle backward. In any other DAW, notes C and D would be there as you pull back the region boundary. But in Logic, they are erased when the cut is made.

 

"Why do you want to do this?"

 

I have a midi performance with several takes that I need to comp and each midi take is about three minutes long. Unfortunately the whole take folder swipe wand thing (which is awesome) only works with Audio, its not available in midi. I have tried using the take folder method without the wand (slicing the take file up instead), the track alternative method, and the plain old method of having several midi tracks. In all of these scenarios, it doesn't really matter. I am finding what would really be helpful is to have the ability to slice a midi region non-destructively.

Edited June 15, 2020 by djohnq

Its shift, sorry. It's called "Paste at original position"

 

Hey Storytime symphony I know its been a while since you posted about this. I read through this thread and it looks like maybe some things were deleted? Do you mind explaining a bit more how this is a solution to the OPs question? Im just not following what you are suggesting to do.

 

I am trying to comp several midi takes that are like 3 minutes long each, and being able to split these takes non-destructively would be super helpful. I would be splitting them many times in many different places and then using the boundaries handles to edit exactly where the cuts are up in the comped track. Does your suggestion help out in a situation like this?

 

Thanks!

So in short, (even though every other DAW on the market can do this) Logic Pro X can't do this??

 

I really hope they include an option for non destructive Midi cuts some day.

 

In the meantime, here is a macro workaround to split a midi region non destructively. The idea is to place the playhead where you want to split the region, then click the region with whatever mouse button you assign the macro. I would have liked to incorporate the playhead placement into the macro but its just too buggy!

 

Hopefully this inspires a more elegant soution. I am using it rigth now in a session and it seem to be working pretty well, I have some issues here and there. I might refine it or I might abandon it. Figured in the meantime Ill post it so someone can use the ideas if they want.

 

This works on 10.5.1.

 

Several commands are involved in the macro. It will likely not work in specific untested scenarios. It may not fit all workflows. There is a lot of room for error in the setup unfortunately so good luck haha!

 

I used GHUB to set up the Macro and GHub is a nightmare so Id imagine it would be easier somewhere else. I think setting up delays in the macro properly might be pretty important.

 

*Needs a mouse that can run macros or a third party app that runs macros (Logitech GHub works).

*no existing overlaps in midi regions that the macro is perfomed on (“Drag Mode: No Overlap” = suggested default workflow)

 

The Logic Pro functions listed below can all be found in the Key Command window.

 

Create the macro below and assign a mouse button to it:

 

1. Macro Action: primary click down/up (you can take this out but make sure you select the region manually before starting the macro if you do)

2. “Copy” (command-C)

3. "Drag Mode: X-Fade"

4. “Paste at Original Position”

5. “Nudge Region Event Position right by Nudge Value"

6. "Slip Left by Nudge Value"

7. "Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Nudge Value"

6. "Select Previous Region/Cell/Event of Same Type/Number"

7. "Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position"

8. "Select Next Region/Cell/Event of Same Type/Number"

9. "Trim Region Start to Previous Region"

10. "Drag Mode: No Overlap"

 

 

If you create keyborad shortcuts for all the fucntions listed above and play with them one by one you will see how it works out and maybe get an idea for something even smoother.

 

If you are looking at the macro above and thinking, "seems like there are extra unnecessary steps in there", there are. The "Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead" command only works properly on very short midi files. It doesnt work on super long ones for some reason. So I took that out and replaced it with a multi step workaround within the workaround (steps 5,6,7, and 9).

Okay got a true 1 click solution going. Its pretty fast, the unfortunate side effect is it takes multiple command-z's to undo the macro, but its not horrible. I think three of those undos are due to the "Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead" bug mentioned above unfortunately. If they fix that the required undos would be reduced.

 

The change from the macro above is that now you can just assign this to a mouse button and click inside a midi region and it will non destructively split it where you click the button. No teeing up required!

 

note: secondary tool needs to be marquee. Im sure you could modify this macro though if that's doesn't fit your workflow. On that note, if you have that "Marquee Tool Click Zones" thing turned on as an option in the preferences, then make sure you only click this macro when the mouse is the regular pointer and not the marquee tool crosshair/plus-sign thing.

 

Here is the improved macro (new stuff is in the first 2 steps):

 

1. Macro Action: Command-Primary Click (secondary tool should be set as marquee tool)

2. "Go To Selection Start"

3. Macro Action: Primary click down/up

4. “Copy” (command-C)

5. "Drag Mode: X-Fade"

6. “Paste at Original Position”

7. “Nudge Region Event Position right by Nudge Value"

8. "Slip Left by Nudge Value"

9. "Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Nudge Value"

10. "Select Previous Region/Cell/Event of Same Type/Number"

11. "Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position"

12. "Select Next Region/Cell/Event of Same Type/Number"

13. "Trim Region Start to Previous Region"

14. "Drag Mode: No Overlap"

 

Also just wanted to mention to me this is totally worth getting a mouse you can assign macros to if non destructive midi editing is as important to you as it is to me. I can't guarantee this is going to work for you if you go out and get one . Its working pretty swell for me though. However even if it doesn't work, having a mouse that can perform macros is really helpful in general.

I ended up taking step one out of the above macro. This means now I need to command click to select where I want to make the cut, *then move the mouse a little bit away from the marquee line but keep it inside the region*, then hit the macro.

 

Still pretty easy. The lack of mouse movement in relation to where the marquee lies graphically is what the problem is with the macro above. sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. This extra click and tiny physical nudge of the mouse before hitting the macro make it way more solid.

Hey there !

Really appreciate you found a work around but I can't figure how to set it up.

Could you explain a bit more how to run that ?

Thanks !

Hey there !

Really appreciate you found a work around but I can't figure how to set it up.

Could you explain a bit more how to run that ?

Thanks !

Why not simply drag the region border to the desired size and then copy ?

Why not simply drag the region border to the desired size and then copy ?

 

Not sure really what you mean but if you are saying take the mouse on one end of the region, drag it, then take the mouse on the other end of the region, drag it, then copy it, then the reason I would avoid that is cause it takes too long haha. but maybe I don't understand what you are saying.

 

At the time I first replied to this thread, I was working on a project with several midi drum takes and I was trying to comp them like you would comp a vocal. In Pro Tools, when you make a midi cut, the cut is non destructive. Just like it is with audio in Logic.

 

If I am understanding your suggestion correctly then that's my whole point. I was trying to avoid having to do what you are suggesting.

 

Maybe im missing something, but thanks for the suggestion anyway!

Hey there !

Really appreciate you found a work around but I can't figure how to set it up.

Could you explain a bit more how to run that ?

Thanks !

 

He Hego just saw this and your PM, figured Id reply here so anyone else reading this thread could see. I guess the only suggestion I can give is that you would want to play around with the timing between actions on your macros, it can make a lot of difference. Also, as great as Logic is, its ridiculously buggy. So I wouldn't be surprised that any macro you end up making will be broken in an update or two anyway haha.

 

I stopped using my macro because I started to realize it was more of a headache than it was worth. Sometimes it would be working just fine in a session for an hour or two, then it would inexplicably stop working. I blame it on Logic because as great as Logic is, I think it has to be the most buggy Daw out there.

 

The reason I wanted to make the macro was because I needed to comp a bunch of midi drum takes. But in the end, if I had to do it again, Id probably just do it in Pro Tools or another DAW then import the midid into Logic. Maybe you can do it in Pro Tools Free version, im not sure. But that would only make sense if you are doing something similar to me.

 

When I'm not doing the midi drum comping described above, if I just want to do some regular midi editing on like a synth part or something, I make a blank midi track (or two, three, etc, or make track alternatives on a blank track) and store a copy of the original midi regions on those blank tracks, then select sections with the marquee tool and drag them down to the actual track that. Again, its not ideal, but its another workaround to try out.

 

Yeah, its a shame that Logic doesn't have non destructive midi editing. So annoying haha. But its so great for so many other things. I think this is the number one bummer for me about Logic. Anyway, hope that helps, and good luck if you are planning to continue on!

It is ridiculously buggy ...

Thank's a lot for your detailed answer djohnq I'm a long time Ableton user but started out with logic.

Logic has something special and I love working with. But it has to much buggy stuff ... That distructive midi slice, among other serious PDC and automation issues ..

So, going back to Ableton for now. Hoping logic will one day be as solid as other DAW in the market right now.

It is ridiculously buggy ...

Thank's a lot for your detailed answer djohnq I'm a long time Ableton user but started out with logic.

Logic has something special and I love working with. But it has to much buggy stuff ... That distructive midi slice, among other serious PDC and automation issues ..

So, going back to Ableton for now. Hoping logic will one day be as solid as other DAW in the market right now.

 

Yeah Im with you Hego. I used Ableton for a while and really liked it but ended up moving away because its video playback did't sync correctly. But Ableton's track bussing and plugin bussing/routing system is so dang awesome, I miss that the most from Ableton. In my head Im just wondering when one of these daws is going to get it all correct haha. I ended up landing on Logic for now because I have been working on a lot of projects with someone who works in Garageband, so it made the most sense, and I have really grown to like Logic a lot.

 

For the PDC, I dont know what your issues are but I ran into that a few times with automation curves being off on timing, making it pretty much impossible to automate the plugin with precise timing. What I ended up doing was making an aux track and moving the plugin I wanted to automate onto that aux track turning the output off on the original track and sending the aux of the original track out at full volume to that new aux track. Then the automation timing cleared up. I dont know if it was a fluke or not though, haha I feel like you never know with Logic.

hahaha welcome to the Logic experience , the workaround science