Adjust project tempo without changing MIDI region tempo

Hello! I have been reading several methods of accomplishing this but nothing is working. I thought I'd try asking on the forum before I have to start from scratch, which hopefully I won't have to do!

 

I was given a demo mix (151bpm) to build tracks on top of. I have done this many times, but this time when I imported the demo, it detected the tempo at half of the actual bpm (75.5). I didn't notice this at first, but as I got into building tracks, I was having to double time drummer tracks and loops to make things correct. Anyway, I've done a bunch of instrument tracks, drummer tracks, and loops, all with this project at this half speed. So since this was just an incorrect interpretation of the guide demo track, none of the tracks I've done are at the wrong tempo in the context of the song, just the project tempo is set to half of the actual song tempo.

 

So now I've been sent the actual LPX project that was the inital demo so that we can integrate all of our tracks (the demo tracks with my additions), and of course I have to find a way to change my overdub project to the demo tempo now, so I can import those demo tracks. I have tried the SMPTE lock, but it doesn't work on any midi/drummer regions. I have tried both locking the MIDI region and also selecting all of the region events and locking those. But it's always messed up once I go and change the project tempo. Audio regions do remain locked and are correct, but not MIDI regions. Any suggestions?

 

The goal is to get everything at the correct tempo (151bpm instead of 75.5) so as we move forward we are both working on the same project at the correct tempo and don't have to do any double time adjustments to drummer tracks, which doesn't always make things come out exactly right. Ive also tried the other way around - I have imported a few 75.5bpm MIDI tracks into the demo 151bpm project (instead of trying to change my project tempo and then importing the demo tracks), and I can do that and then half speed them, but I always have to adjust region events because half timing changes their placement in the region...and there are a LOT of MIDI events.

 

The last case scenario would be just leave my project tempo at half speed, and import the demo tracks and then manually adjust those MIDI events that get displaced since there are only 3 of those...and then just deal with working at the half speed tempo. But still, I'd like to know if there's a way to double my project tempo without affecting MIDI tracks.

 

I hope that makes sense! thanks for all the help!

 

Shawn

Temporarily move the drummer regions to a regular Instrument track, lock the region and its events, change the tempo, then move the region back to the drummer track.

Temporarily move the drummer regions to a regular Instrument track, lock the region and its events, change the tempo, then move the region back to the drummer track.

 

But that will permanently transform it into a MIDI region, only that it's played through the channel used by Drummer, it will not convert back to a Drummer region.

Fwiw, Drummer not working with SMPTE lock could possibly even be considered a bug. A) The lock sign is actually showing up, b) when you change the tempo, Drummer is not synced to either the old or the new tempo but just going for a completely random thing.

But that will permanently transform it into a MIDI region, only that it's played through the channel used by Drummer, it will not convert back to a Drummer region.

True. And while you actually can convert it back into a Drummer Region, it will conform to the new project tempo again.

 

Anyway, the fill- and velocity-randomness that you get with it being a Drummer Region might even be a less desired feature the more you approach the final stages of the project, so MIDI Regions might accidentally do more good than harm in that scenario ?

And while you actually can convert it back into a Drummer Region,

 

How does that work?

Anyway, the fill- and velocity-randomness that you get with it being a Drummer Region

 

Sorry to be nitpicking here, but fwiw, there's no randomness in Drummer regions. They're always exactly the same (unless you change something in the editor, of course).

This was one of the first things I was wondering about when I switched to LPX, so I was setting up a track using the same channel settings, copied the Drummer regions onto it and panned Drummer and the plain instrument track hard L/R for the most obvious option to compare. They're just identical.

And while you actually can convert it back into a Drummer Region,

 

How does that work?

 

http://www.birgit-obermaier.de/Media/drummer.png

 

Anyway, It doesn't give the result we're after

there's no randomness in Drummer regions.

 

Interesting. I thought there were, since I always saw it as a competitor to Spectrasonics Stylus' Chaos Designer. I haven't spent too much time with Drummer, being one myself...

 

But then - since you don't lose any magic mojo, you *can* commit yourself to what the Drummer plays, convert it to MIDI and move on, right ?

http://www.birgit-obermaier.de/Media/drummer.png

 

Anyway, It doesn't give the result we're after

 

Ah, that might be good to know in case something went weird.

 

But then - since you don't lose any magic mojo, you *can* commit yourself to what the Drummer plays, convert it to MIDI and move on, right ?

 

Personally, at least so far, I only use Drummer to do its thing for a few bars and then drag the regions onto a MIDI track. I do then change some settings and drag the regions again. After a while I may have a nice collection that I will then edit further. Not sure whether I'll stick with that, but it seems to work nicely. And I can still say "well, at least I edited it myself" (I once took some pride in creating all my drum parts myself, but uhm, I finally realized I should rather stick to my instrument of choice).

there's no randomness in Drummer regions.

 

Interesting. I thought there were

There's no randomness in the Drummer regions themselves but there's round robin pseudo randomness in the way Drum Kit Designer plays back the Drummer regions.

And while you actually can convert it back into a Drummer Region,

 

How does that work?

You cannot convert a MIDI region into a Drummer region. If you make any change in the MIDI region, those changes are lost upon "converting" back to a Drummer region. The option is mislabeled, it should be "Revert to original Drummer region".

There's no randomness in the Drummer regions themselves but there's round robin pseudo randomness in the way Drum Kit Designer plays back the Drummer regions.

 

Yeah. But that's the same when playing a straight MIDI region through it.

Fwiw, when you start the song from the same position, are the round robin cycles identical or are they truly random? Could possibly just check for myself, comparing it to a BIP.

 

You cannot convert a MIDI region into a Drummer region. If you make any change in the MIDI region, those changes are lost upon "converting" back to a Drummer region. The option is mislabeled, it should be "Revert to original Drummer region".

 

Noticed that already.

And while I know hopw difficult that would probably be to get done, what *if* it was truly possible and if Drummer would be able to do its thing based on the MIDI regions you slap onto its track? That'd be incredible.

There's no randomness in the Drummer regions themselves but there's round robin pseudo randomness in the way Drum Kit Designer plays back the Drummer regions.

 

Yeah. But that's the same when playing a straight MIDI region through it.

Yes, that's what I was trying to express.

 

Fwiw, when you start the song from the same position, are the round robin cycles identical or are they truly random?

They are pseudo random. Consecutive playbacks of the same section sound different.

They are pseudo random. Consecutive playbacks of the same section sound different.

 

Kinda contradicting the idea of total recall...

Kinda contradicting the idea of total recall...

Yes, but that's the whole idea behind using round robin in sampler instruments, it's not supposed to be predictable. You can commit by bouncing but it's kind of a surprise what you'll get from each bounce.

Yes, but that's the whole idea behind using round robin in sampler instruments, it's not supposed to be predictable. You can commit by bouncing but it's kind of a surprise what you'll get from each bounce.

 

I know. And well, it's not that much of a big issue - I mean, after all, the results are not *that* much different (in most cases at least). Yet, I think that sampler makers could as well come up with a "fixed" version of round robin, allowing for 100% predictable results, at least once you start your song from the same position.

Yet, I think that sampler makers could as well come up with a "fixed" version of round robin, allowing for 100% predictable results, at least once you start your song from the same position.

I agree, some kind of "freeze last playback" function would be good, so that if you liked the way it sounded you can make sure it'll always sound exactly the same from now on.

 

IMO the differences between successive playbacks can be pretty large.

I agree, some kind of "freeze last playback" function would be good, so that if you liked the way it sounded you can make sure it'll always sound exactly the same from now on.

 

Probably tough to achieve with a "normal" combination of a sampler and sequencer, but in case of Logic, it should in fact be doable with all EXS based instruments.

 

IMO the differences between successive playbacks can be pretty large.

 

Never got in my ways so far, but then, I'm not exactly a producer (but rather a player).

Hi all. I was having the same problem as the original post. The answers I found online were either extremely complex and technical which does't help most newbies or very irrelevant since there isn't a clear cut way to express this problem and some replies just don't answer the question ...not to mention that everyone has a different way of solving problems.

So, as my contribution to this solution relating to the very first post: I would recommend that you open a project with the midi files only. If the project was recorded at 75.5BPM and you require it to sound the same at 150BPM the easiest way would be to double the speed of the midi files. The easiest way to do this is just to

* highlight all you midi tracks in order to make the change on all your midi instruments,

* double click to open the midi editor,

* highlight all the midi notes in order to affect all instruments (redundant but necessary in order to make sure),

* go to the Functions tab,

* scroll down to "midi transform" and

+ choose the "double speed" option..or" half speed" as the case may require.

This will change the Midi files to suit the project tempo and once you do this you can import your audio files that contain your desired project tempo.

As a side note, this is simple enough when you have to half speed or double speed. However, if the mathematical requirement was different and you needed a fast solution this wouldn't really help. The again, halving or doubling the midi speed will get you closer to your desired tempo and from there it is just a matter of manipulating project tempo parameters.

I know this is an old thread, but I landed here searching, with the same dilemma. As gabo.sound suggests it can be quite easy. I needed to half the time signature in a project with existing audio and midi track-

selected all tracks (of any kind)

function- lock SMPTE position

deselect all and reselect midi tracks only

function, midi transform- half speed, select and operate

 

Quick and easy. I had one synced delay aux that needed to be changed, otherwise all done. Hope this helps anyone landing here.