apsttesc Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Do you even use them, guys? What for? Or can every “small” synth in Logic be easily replaced by ES2 and Alchemy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I didn't use them for long enough not to remember when that was; except for theEFM. Nevertheless, I would not like to see them go. I would believe few of them could be easily replaced sonically speaking by ES2 and/or Alchemy. However, those are rather heavy machinery, and likely too resource hungry for basic sound needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I love them. Small synths that sound big. Don't be fooled by the simplistic outdated interface and just open your ears. ES M is a killer synth to make powerful bass synth sounds. And NO, every "small" synth cannot be replaced, easily or even with great difficulty, by other more complex synthesizers. Each synth has its particularity, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darude Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Not being a hypocrite, I use a lot of 3rd party synths, effects and processors, but if one only had Logic Pro X, for a couple of hundred bucks one would have 100x more tools & channels & potential than pretty much anyone 20 years ago with 100k studio. You easily CAN make banging music, final productions, with the E-synths and everything else in Logic. Easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 You easily CAN make banging music, final productions, with the E-synths and everything else in Logic. Easily. Thanks for adding your voice to this Darude. I fully concur and am often frustrated that this fact is lost on newer producers who after getting Logic ask immediately what the "best" 3rd party plug-ins are for eying, compressing, synthesizers, samplers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsttesc Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Hey guys, thank you all for your insight. I totally agree on the point about the depth of Logic’s capabilities, and I also forbade myself from buying any third-party synths untill I learn all ins and outs of the suff that comes with Logic, hence my question. I am quit a newbie in synthesis, though, so I wanted to hear some learned opinions on this matter. By the way, I find those small synths pretty cute, and I am not disgusted by their old-school design at all. So I am happy you don’t think it’s a waste of time to play with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I think that when learning synths, it's good to have a good all around starter synth to learn like the ES1 or, if you're not intimidated, the ES2, but it's even better to learn to reproduce the same things in any synth. For example, you want a bit of vibrato in your synth sound, try routing an LFO to the pitch of the oscillator in the ES1, in the ES2, in RetroSynth, in Alchemy, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsttesc Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 I think that when learning synths, it's good to have a good all around starter synth to learn like the ES1 or, if you're not intimidated, the ES2, but it's even better to learn to reproduce the same things in any synth. For example, you want a bit of vibrato in your synth sound, try routing an LFO to the pitch of the oscillator in the ES1, in the ES2, in RetroSynth, in Alchemy, etc.. Yeah, I sometimes watch tutorials on how to make a particular sound, but try to follow the same steps in a different synth (e.g. if a tutorial is in Serum, I’ll use ES2). Thanks for advice, David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I think sculpture is HUGELY under-rated, it's almost forgotten. But learn it, and it brings a refreshing break from all the other types of synthesis out there. For me, it's truly unique. I love how it adds random elements in an organic fashion, and the depth of the objects it contains is huge as the slightest modification to it's synthesis and the sound just warps/morphs into something else. Plus most of what comes out of sculpture isn't natively too fat and overly processed, you can get nice plucky sounds, really thin metals, and almost FM bell sounding tones. It's a strange mix really. Sculpture therefore leaves a lot of room for processing, so if you apply a nice plate reverb behind some of the thinner sounds you get an excellent mid-high range ambience. Or you can dirty some of the sounds it produces to create glitchy/industrial elements - it's really fantastic. Some will hear Sculpture once and turn it off thinking it sounds like those old MIDI players.. But believe me, if you start to scratch the surface there's some really unique features in there, and you get oodles of tweaking available that instantly raise a smile. Combine it with some additional effects and i can get lost in it for hours! I also love the Legato on it, and the EQ models are nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 You're welcome, it's a really good exercise! After a while you get pretty quick at understanding how just about any synth works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I think sculpture is HUGELY under-rated, it's almost forgotten. But learn it, and it brings a refreshing break from all the other types of synthesis out there. For me, it's truly unique. I love how it adds random elements in an organic fashion, and the depth of the objects it contains is huge as the slightest modification to it's synthesis and the sound just warps/morphs into something else. Plus most of what comes out of sculpture isn't natively too fat and overly processed, you can get nice plucky sounds, really thin metals, and almost FM bell sounding tones. It's a strange mix really. Sculpture therefore leaves a lot of room for processing, so if you apply a nice plate reverb behind some of the thinner sounds you get an excellent mid-high range ambience. Or you can dirty some of the sounds it produces to create glitchy/industrial elements - it's really fantastic. Some will hear Sculpture once and turn it off thinking it sounds like those old MIDI players.. But believe me, if you start to scratch the surface there's some really unique features in there, and you get oodles of tweaking available that instantly raise a smile. Combine it with some additional effects and i can get lost in it for hours! I also love the Legato on it, and the EQ models are nuts. Totally agree with you Sculpture is a very interesting piece of synth because it opens an original approach, sounds great and present a stunning versatility. I don't consider Sculpture (nor the ES2) as outdated synth, far from that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 ...And NO, every "small" synth cannot be replaced, easily or even with great difficulty, by other more complex synthesizers. Each synth has its particularity, really. Sonically, pretty much any sampling equipped synth can reproduce the ESM sound, and propel it to another level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 ...And NO, every "small" synth cannot be replaced, easily or even with great difficulty, by other more complex synthesizers. Each synth has its particularity, really. Sonically, pretty much any sampling equipped synth can reproduce the ESM sound, and propel it to another level... I don't agree, it's not the same oscillators, filters, they don't sound the same... have you ever looked at for example "sawtooth waves" produced by different synths on an oscilloscope? No two synth produce the same exact waveforms or sound exactly alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Sonically, pretty much any sampling equipped synth can reproduce the ESM sound, and propel it to another level... I don't agree, it's not the same oscillators, filters, they don't sound the same... have you ever looked at for example "sawtooth waves" produced by different synths on an oscilloscope? No two synth produce the same exact waveforms or sound exactly alike. No, I never went to scrutinize with an oscilloscope. After checking further, although a sampled ESM preset, aurally sounds pretty much the same, the original synth does have a distinct character expression and offer too many distinct possibilities that would represent too much work to emulate with a sampler. Might as well keep the original synth. The exercise gave me the opportunity to rediscover those oldies... Thanx for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Oh I didn't even realize that you meant sampling the ES M itself. In that case yes, you can reproduce the same sound as long as it's static, but you won't be able to make the sound evolve the same way you can in the synth itself — as you just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Great discussion here, I concurr to everything David, Darudevil and others have been saying. All factory-supplied soft instruments (incl. the basic synths) are definitely geart tools, capable of being used in final productions at pro level. As far as instruments are concerned, I almostly only use Logic's factory synths in my own productions. One thing to note: super easy to layer several of the (supposedly) basic synths (or layer/combine them with more complex ones like scuplture, ES2, EXS24, Alchemy) into Summing Stacks. This virtually doesn't tax the CPU at all, even with numerous layers, but enables to produce, with the help of a little automation or moving effects, extermely complex and interesting sounds, and/or to radically change the flavor of Sculpture, EXS24, Alchemy primary sounds. Endless possibilities, ever-modern new ways at the tip of your fingers, with these good ol' tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I think that it behooves all of us, now and then, to dust off our back-issues of [Contemporary] Keyboard magazine – yes, we still have them, don't we? – and to look once again at those advertisements for Fairlights and Synclaviers that we all lusted-over at the time. Some models cost over $100,000 (in the currency of that time!), which of course can only mean one thing: artists were paying "that kind of money." All for much less musical capability that is de rigueur today, certainly with Logic but even with GarageBand. I am very glad that Logic has retained a broad spectrum of software synthesizers and I hope that it will always continue to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Fwiw, I just love simple synths. While I have learned to sort of find my ways around more complexed beasts during the last, uhm, decades (or so...), I think that these easy synths will keep you a bit more focused on making music rather than sculpting sounds (even if the two sometimes go hand in hand with each other). IMO the sounds often are easier to keep track of in a mix, whereas, say, a fullblown Alchemy patch might just cover too much ground and possibly require a lot of afterthought to make it fit. Fwiw, this is also why I really just love Zebra 2. While it's still one of the most complexed synths in case you want it to be, it also offers a "down to the basics" approach as you can add just one single OSC module and, say, a single filter - with everything else being completely out of the way. Whatever, I also always found the "basic" synths in Logic to sound remarkably great both on their own and in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeAl Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I agree with the small synths being totally useful. I am new to LP but have been twiddling knobs and creating patches since the Minimoog and ARP 2600 were state of the art. The beauty of the small synths is in their simplicity. It's as basic as this- if I need a unique "patch" that does not require an Alchemy or Sculpture, etc. (all of which I love, btw) then my workflow moves right along with an E SP or EFM1. If I can tap it into place with the screwdiver in my hand, I won't haul out my hammer! (well, maybe Jan Hammer,,,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelonyc Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Yes, Logic synths are pretty functional. However I don't use them. There are many 3rd party much more sophisticated synths, with built in effects.. If I didn't have the $$$ (and I'm not rich), I would use them more.. It would be nice, if Apple updated them to a more modern feel. HOWEVER they can also get the job done, if you want to added Logic's existing effects to them. And yes, Sculpture is pretty damn good. I still use that sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeAl Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Great point about built-in effects, in terms of both processor power and workflow. Workflow is key!! Because I'm relatively new to this format (I was recording with ADATs and the Roland VS1680, etc., when Logic was a mere toy, and only recently went totally computer-based!) I am still of the philosophy that limiting one's choices can be a valuable way of shaping the creative process (like Brian Eno pointing out that the problem with non-destructive editing is that the ability to defer decisions is a two-edged sword.) Because I'm still a kid in a candy store with LPX, I am so far restricting my use of 3rd party plug-ins to certain sound libraries that give me real world sounds I cannot even approach within LPX. The "modern feel" comment is interesting and I will give that some thought. I am old-school, and can relate easily to the "historicaI" feel of a lot of plug-ins, and see a lot of practical value in acknowledging and even emulating the roots of various forms of synthesis. Consider the hardware employed for the musical cues for, say, a recent production like Stranger Things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I personally rather see those stock synths not changing so much in order to keep their distinct character. In the same way, I would not like to see the original hardware synth (Arp Odyssey, Prophet 5, etc) being removed from the face of the earth to be replaced by a newly designed gear. My 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed to it. No mention of the ESE though? Such a beautiful chorused sound that reminds me of the days of 80s Mario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipfunk Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I love them. Small synths that sound big. Don't be fooled by the simplistic outdated interface and just open your ears. ES M is a killer synth to make powerful bass synth sounds. And NO, every "small" synth cannot be replaced, easily or even with great difficulty, by other more complex synthesizers. Each synth has its particularity, really. I like them for the fact that they are small and simple. If I need a noise sweep or simple pumping bass I fro to these synths and get my sound fast. I imagine someone more versed in synthology would have a better idea but with most every project I have I need quick over picking over endless parameters. I love the bigger synths like Alchemy and such but I use them only when I have the time. Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 “I like them for the fact that they are small and simple. If I need a noise sweep”. I’ve been learning Logic for a year now and have watched my fair share of series on producing and mixing in Logic. What you said here reminds me of the fact that, In ALL those series, the ESP has only ever been used to add a white noise sweep. I got the feeling the tutor was simply shoehorning it in to tick a box for using a range of synths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAnthony Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I love the built in synths but at this point I’d contribute to a GoFundMe page for Apple update the UIs lol. I opened all the synths today after installing 10.7 to see if any had been brought into the current century and upon opening Ultrabeat I legit had to close my MBP and just go collect myself for a minute lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsttesc Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 You made me laugh, Robert And Ultrabeat HAS BEEN UPDATED recently! Now it's at least scalable, thank god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enossified Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I love the built in synths but at this point I’d contribute to a GoFundMe page for Apple update the UIs lol. ES-1 is so garish it just hurts my eyes. Sounds OK, but programming it drives me nuts because of the UI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gilmartin Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I'm going to say something controversial... I really like the Ultrabeat UI and would be disappointed if they updated it. I think it looks really quite cool. The same is true for the ES M, the ES E and the ES P. They are retro in a cosy way. The ES 1, on the other hand.... If a fart could look like a synth, I think it would look like the ES1. That UI needs some serious TLC from the Logic deities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I'm going to say something controversial... I really like the Ultrabeat UI and would be disappointed if they updated it. I think it looks really quite cool. The same is true for the ES M, the ES E and the ES P. They are retro in a cosy way. Amen to that! The ES 1, on the other hand.... If a fart could look like a synth, I think it would look like the ES1. That UI needs some serious TLC from the Logic deities.One could use Colorizer to make it look a little less 1980's hue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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