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Additional "preroll" when using DKD (or so...)


Sascha Franck

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Ok, I can't exactly pinpoint the reason for this - but I can make certain things happen reproduceably which are extremely annoying. So, this is happening:

In some cases, when using Drum Kit Designer, there's an additional "preroll". When you set your locator and press start, things should start at the position you've set and at no other place. As easy as that. But it does. Sometimes up to, say, a 16th note earlier. When you remove the critical DKD instance, things are back to normal.

This is even happening when you mute the channel.

And it's also happening with some of the other "EXS wrappers", namely Studio Strings and Studio Horns, but not as reliable as with DKD.

 

The entire thing is extremely annoying when you work on very small sections, such as cutting vocals and the dreaded playhead will always start earlier, including, say, the previous syllable.

This has *never* happened with any previous versions and IMO it's completely unprofessional. In case I set my playhead wherever I wish, I deserve the friggin' thing to play from that very position. I don't want previous syllables, overlapping crashes and what not to play. Not. Once. Ever.

 

I suspect one of the reasons to be the awkward idea of those EXS wrappers to use "consolidated" audio files - which, on pretty much all accounts, has to be considered nonsense anyway.

 

In case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about, I could make a short video clip to demonstrate things.

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Ok, here's the video:

You can see that I even have the offending tracks muted. First I'm pressing play/stop a bunch of times. You can clearly listen how there's a preroll before the click plays beat one.

I do then delete the percussion track and things are getting better already, yet it's still not even remotely tight.

Next I delete the Drummer track and only after that things are what they should be like.

IMO this is horrible and it's annoying me to no end since weeks already - it's only now that I can reproduce it reliably.

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This is working as intended.

Some of the samples played by the EXS24 or DKD have a displaced anchor to allow for a proper build up before the transient hits.

 

Sorry, but it should then suppress all audio from the output until things are ready to be played exactly from the SPP position.

In addition, it's not an issue with 3rd party instruments. And it's also not that the DKD instruments are *that* glorious to justify such a huge lapsus.

Regardless of what it relates to, when I press play, I want the playback to start from the very position my SPP is at. This is how things worked like since decades, this is what they work like in other sequencers and this is what they work like with 3rd party instruments, some of them being a whole lot more elaborated than DKD (for instance some Kontakt libraries, Steven Slate drums and what not). It's something that simply has to work and IMO a completely inacceptable drawback - so much that I consider it a bug.

And finally, even if what you say is true (and I have no doubts that it likely is...), we're talking about something around a 16th note here. No drum instrument needs that kind of "build up".

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The latency is in samples and totally dependent on the anchor in the EXS sampler (max 10000 samples)

Depending on your tempo this could generate a displacement of 1/4 note or more.

 

It's pretty easy to circumvent.

You can either turn off Plug-in Latency compensation (not really recommended since it will play everything late in time) or you can uncheck Playback pre-roll in Preferences > Audio > General.

Just be aware that this will alter the sound of the first samples being played.

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It's pretty easy to circumvent.

You can either turn off Plug-in Latency compensation (not really recommended since it will play everything late in time) or you can uncheck Playback pre-roll in Preferences > Audio > General.

Just be aware that this will alter the sound of the first samples being played.

 

Or I could just not use DKD anymore. Because other 3rd party instruments simply don't suffer from that issue. IMO DKD shouldn't, either.

As said, I understand what you're saying, but it's still faulty and completely inacceptable.

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Fwiw, and this is finally and perfectly proving my point: Logic also adds that additional preroll when the actual instrument causing it (usually one of the EXS wrappers) isn't even playing anything at the song position (but several bars later).

 

Put it how you want it, but a sequencer not starting at the song position is completely inacceptable. There's absolutely no excuses for this but sloppy programming (and well, I guess by now we know that the several EXS wrappers are a sloppy idea to even start with, they're simply not working flawlessly in many aspects...).

 

In all seriousness, this already made me not use Drummer anymore (at least almost), simply because it's too annoying once you work on any details. But well, as it's not Drummers fault, I may work on some Battery kits to replace the dreaded wrapper nonsense (fwiw, I'm having exactly the same issues with Studio Horns/Strings - and let's not even get started with DKD, which won't even allow you to properly record something on beat one...).

 

Really, it's a shame what all this has turned into with LPX. Bloated with content while messing up some absolutely elementary features all over the place. If LP9 would be 64bit (and load the latest 64bit plugins), I'd be back in a hearbeat.

I have been so happy after my first days with this new-ish computer (for me at least) and LPX - but right at the moment, the frustration is growing a lot. Can't zoom properly anymore at all, can't work with samples properly anymore, can't beat map properly anymore, "capture last take" messed up royally - and now it's not even starting at song position anymore.

Content over function, that's what Logic has turned into.

 

Will wait for the apparently expected early spring update, in case none of these issues are adressed (which I actually and unfortunately don't expect), I'll be having a serious look at something else.

They need better quality assurance in Apple/Logic land, that's for sure. Doesn't help that it turned into something you can purchase for pocket money, either. I'd rather pay a lot more and have a properly working sequencer.

 

Sorry for the rant - but it's actually not a rant, just a conclusion.

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Ok, and here's *the* final prove that the entire thing is just badly programmed and not caused by whatever changed anchors in whatever sampler patches and what not: When you record, the sound of the backing tracks (plus whatever amount of count in bars you've set) *ALWAYS* starts on beat one. Dead on.

Just on normal playback it doesn't.

As said before, this is completely inacceptable.

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