lost and concerned

Hi, after numerous little niggles culminating in my logic board being replaced in nov. 2018 my mac book pro has started what seems to me to be overheating (although the gauge measures only 52 degrees) which eventually leads to Logic simply freezing and shutting down in what I imagine is a safety measure - everything seems to be ok until I open an instance of maybe ozone 8 but the problem is at its worst when I cycle record audio tracks or even if I go over and over a part continuously for mixing purposes Logic freezes, closes and re opens with the auto saved feature but before long the same thing happens, I am completely lost as to what the problem may be and am hoping for possible fixes other than doling out another huge sum of cash for a machine which I have only used sparingly since I purchased it in 2016 (it was reconditioned - but from Apple)

I use the machine for Logic almost solely and am running it in tandem with a UA Apollo Twin and smallish track counts with a few plugs on each track.... I have tried freezing and all other manner of CPU cutbacks.... nowhere left to cut now, someone help me out of this dark hole if you can.

First time I've posted an issue here spec is : MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) , 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 ,16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 , 500g SSD.

 

Thanks in advance

 

ZC

My brand new MacBook pro 15 is struggling with logic too. The heat generated is crazy, I'm worried my touch bar is about to burst into flames! Though logic has continued to function (no forced shutdowns) it often becomes unresponsive to key commands, controller input information, audio drop outs, instruments behaving badly, even audio feedback - from where I have no clue. I'm pushing it with plugins etc but the cpu meter rarely passes the half way mark. I'm at a point in my current mix where I'm bouncing tracks of midi down to audio and there is plenty going on but I'm only using 16 channels, running Logic instruments and plugins only.

Anyone else experienced this with the latest MacBook?

 

2019 MacBook Pro 15 2.6Ghz 6 core / external SSD drive for Audio / Logic Pro X 10.4.5

Per Ploki's suggestion I downloaded then purchased iStat Menus as a way to monitor the temps in my new MBP. I haven't had any trouble with the new MBP operating. No glitches whatever, but .... the fans do barely seem to come on, and it does get darn warm on the rear left top by the touch bar.

 

Initially I installed MacsFan Control. Have used that for years, in various MBP's, adjusted so as to run the fans somewhere in the middle of their rpm ranges, with the max fan rpms kicking in under a load. Doing that is all guesswork, as there really aren't any " official " settings for the fan ranges. Just decide how loud you want them to be, and with that how quickly the little internal radiator things will fill with fluff and block up. Plus, running those little fans nearly full up all the time can't be good for their bearings, as in, they'll fail sooner. Also, my new MBP is covered by AppleCare and they apparently don't allow opening it to clean the fans. So just maxing them out is a bad plan for me, in my dusty world of cat fuzz and stuff.

 

Back to the new MBP, yes, it gets warm. I had no idea how warm, so I installed the iStat app. After about a week, what I see is the cpu isn't really getting that hot. What seems to be happening with my particular MBP, is the fans just don't ramp up until way past when the case feels hot. If the fans are idling, then the case gets warm. Ah, but iStat has some nice options to speed the fans up. And they easier to get to and use than in MacsFan Control so I can easily change how the fans run depending on what I'm doing. So when I'm Logic-ing and it starts to feel warm, I drop down the menu, and pic one of the faster fan profiles. In a few minutes, the case is all cool again. Cpu temps are still up there, but they don't move much fans adjusted up or not. What does change, and remember I've only been playing with this for a few days, are the air outlet temps and the battery temps. Those drop noticeably when I set the fans to run more.

 

If this reads like an ad, it's not. Just that I'm very impressed with how much nicer it is to see what all those sensors are saying, and from that being able to make some reasonable adjustments to the fans. I'm trading more fan noise, and dirt collection for a slightly cooler running Mac.

 

So I'd say give that app a look, maybe it'll help some.

Thank you, I was planning on downloading iStat menus though I was unaware the app allowed fan control. I'm doing it now and looking forward to the results. Thanks again.

Word of warning -

iStat menus downloaded from the App Store does not include fan control.

iStat menus purchased from the developer does.

Downloaded iStat menus and this is what's showing during playback. Constant operation in the mid 70c's peaking in the mid 80's. Fans barely operate above 2200rpm. Not sure if this is what I should normally expect. I know the CPU is copping a hiding but I would have thought the fans would be ramping up to compensate.

Jim, how does this compare to your stats?

Your cpu temps are a little hotter than mine, but not much. I'm seeing mid 50's to low 60 C if I leave iStat fans at System Controlled and Logic actually doing something. Could be the project I'm trying just doesn't work it as hard. What I do see is your fans are in the low 2000 range, as in, they are just idling. Same as yours, my left side fan runs a little faster when it's set to Apple's settings. I was a little concerned about that, but seeing yours doing the same thing, that must be normal. Whatever is on the left side of the heat pipe is slightly hotter.

 

So, go to the fan settings in iStat and put 'em on medium. See what that does.

I didn't know the App Store version didn't have fan controls. I thought ... that version didn't have the cpu frequency info. But hey, maybe both parts are missing. Like you, I went with the version from the developer site. The cpu info is interesting. I didn't realize these cpu's, the one I have at least, vary their clock speeds up and down depending on load. Like, now just running Safari, it's in the 1.3 ghz range. Less speed, less power consumption, less heat generated. Running Logic, it goes up into the 3.0 to 3.5 to 4 ghz range according to the iStat time laps graphs. And with that, it gets hotter. Interesting stuff. To get the cpu clock info takes downloading some extra little thing from Intel. Info on that is either in the app or on the developer site.

 

Let me / us know how things work out.

Interesting responses, but do any of you guys suffer the screen/Logic freeze followed by the machine going into auto-shutdown followed by automatic restart and the auto saved option appearing on restart without even having to open Logic?, I also note that my machine is a bit older than the other machines discussed here but as I say my MBP has not been taxed in any way - below average usage in fact, and only Logic has been running for the big majority of that usage, I can't shake the feeling that this MBP as a reconditioned machine has just not been all that a new one would've been despite all the claims by Apple of parity, I'm just hoping it can be fixed, any suggestions for inexpensive solutions welcome

 

ZC

anyone experiencing overheating stuff I would suggest an app called Turbo Boost Switcher http://tbswitcher.rugarciap.com

 

keeps everything from going nuts for me

Zandrec, have you run a RAM diagnostic test? It sounds like RAM corruption issue, maybe??

You're not running any cracked plugins?

 

Jim, increased my fan speed to a 4000rpm idle and problem seems to be solved. After letting it warm up to the mid 70's, ramping up the fans dropped the cpu temps to the mid 50's. I also dropped some open, plugin laden, unused bus channels that I'd been using to bounce through. I guess they were eating up processing power even though there was no audio running through them. I have downloaded - 'Intel Power Gadget.dmg ' and yes, there's a link on Bjango's iStat Menus feature list. Interested to see what's going on but requires a restart.

Zandrec, 52 C for cpu temps isn't that hot at all. If the cpu gets overly hot, it normally just throttles back on the cpu frequency some. Crashing, especially Logic itself crashing, sounds way more like a software or interface issue. Actually, as you state it, the computer / os isn't crashing, just Logic. If the computer itself crashes, you'd likely see odd screens full of numbers and error warnings. I had an iMac that had issues once, due to hardware problems. When it crashed, the screen went all white with rows of error warnings and such. I think they called those " kernel panics " back in the day. So, my thoughts would be the hardware is ok, and the problem is somewhere else. Not that I'm all knowing, maybe you do have some bizarre hardware issue, but it doesn't sound like it. Hardware problems would likely bring the whole computer to an abrupt halt, not just cause Logic to stop then reopen.

 

You don't really say what problems the machine had that resulted in a logic board replacement.

Is it possible there is an issue with my Apollo Twin which caused the MBP to require the logic board to be replaced and now it has manifested as another issue within Logic pro?..... or put another way, is the Apollo Twin is damaging my MBP while I use it as my interface?

 

ZC

more info :

leading up to the the logic board being replaced the issue with Logic pro was that the machine/Logic pro froze with the screen displaying a white zig zag pattern, forced shut down was the only remedy until the logic board was replaced.

 

ZC

A zig zag pattern on the screen .... now that IS a hardware problem. Could something plugged into one of the io ports damage the gpu and cause that ? I doubt it. Anything could be remotely possible, but eh, no. Your earlier boards screen problem sounds like a GPU chip issue. There were a few years of MBP's ( I don't remember exactly which ones ) where if the machine got really hot the logic board would flex and fail. So, really excessive heat might cause the gpu to let go. I had one of the " bad " cpu machines, a 2011 15 inch. There was even a recall on mine. Never took it in. I replaced the thermal compound ( not really a do it yourself thing generally on these ) and used MacsFan Control to speed the fans up. Used that machine until now. It's still my backup unit for live work. So 8 years on a known problem model. Apple makes these by the boat load, so a few are gonna fail, no matter how good their quality controls. That's just life. Key is don't let one failure in a million cause you to believe they are all bad. Then again, like has been said if you have actual hardware issues, those should show up in the diagnostics or system logs. Of course, understanding those is a skill in itself.

 

First step, get something like IStat. Learn how to speed the fans a little so it doesn't get scalding hot if it is. And, most of all, try to figure out if you have some software or driver issue.

Zanderc, if I read it right, you have a 2015 model that had the logic board replaced in nov of 2018 ? Who did the repair, Apple ? Does the replacement board have some warranty coverage ?

 

 

I wonder why this thread isn't in the gear forum

Jim et al., I shoulda put this in the gear forum but as a first time poster I just jumped in without thinking, the reality is though that the freeze does not happen until I push the machine via LPX operations like quickfire continual re recording of takes or when I put an instance of ozone 8 on the master bus.

With small CPU usage LPX can run for long sessions, weird, ... re. previous problem, Apple said the logic board was the issue and replaced it, I'm not sure about the warranty I'll have to check that out but all was resolved after that until now.

Grateful for all your input and will follow up on your advice but MBP never goes above 70 c so "really hot" is not an issue, however you mentioned "io ports damaging the gpu" and I have this annoying habit of plugging my headphones into the Apollo twin hi-z input for guitar OR plugging the Guitar lead into the headphone input by mistake.... could that cause problems?

 

ZC

I'm going to remove ALL plug ins and try quickfire re recording and cycle recording of bass guitar along with a single drummer track and empty master buss then if freeze happens I can rule in/out cracked plug in, cpu and overheating problems, will post results

 

ZC

you posted "Grateful for all your input and will follow up on your advice but MBP never goes above 70 c so "really hot" is not an issue, however you mentioned "io ports damaging the gpu" and I have this annoying habit of plugging my headphones into the Apollo twin hi-z input for guitar OR plugging the Guitar lead into the headphone input by mistake.... could that cause problems? "

 

--

 

Short answer, no.

 

Doing things like you describe, plugging something into the wrong jack on the Apollo, isn't something to really worry about. The designers of these things take that sort of user mistake into account. It would take something really extreme, like maybe connecting a tube amps speaker out directly to the Apollo inputs to fry them. And even that, that would only ruin the Apollo. Then, that damage would stop at the computers usb port.

 

If you did somehow damage the computers usb port, it would be dead all the time, not sometimes. There use to be internal fuses on the usb ports circuitry, probably still are. Not user repairable, but they will open and stop any huge over voltage from going any farther into the computer. As I type this, I keep thinking of odd possible scenarios, things that would just never happen in any real world. But that sort of near impossibility aside, no, plugging something wrong into the Apollo didn't damage the computer.

I had a longish four hour session on LPX tonight with one drum track and recording bass as explained above, no issues yet although I have more rigorous testing to do, however my previous session in which I had the stated problems was a session with ALL tracks frozen while putting down the bass track so really not a great deal more cpu usage than a single drum track and bass recording, can it possibly be a third party plug causing these issues even when frozen? if RAM corruption is to blame as suggested by cockeyi above wouldn't the problem still have occurred with my latest session or could the progressively higher taxing of the RAM eventually cause this, its a real mystery, next idea is to gradually add plugs and heavier processing until the problem occurs, but in all honesty I am really stumbling around in the dark, could it be that my idea of what LPX can handle (considering the spec of my machine) and reality differ wildly?, and surely if that WAS the case the result would be a cpu overload message and not a freeze and auto shut down, why does auto shut down most commonly occur in LPX?

 

ZC

Not sure what you mean by " auto shutdown ". Is the computer rebooting, or does Logic quit then restart ?

The usual procedure is : extra fan activity followed by LPX and cursor movement freeze then about 10 secs after freeze machine shuts down automatically immediately reboots and after normal login the first thing offered is to re-open LPX using the autosave or last saved option and sometimes after login the fan activity is still extreme although temp is not over 70 c and I haven't re opened LPX yet

 

ZC

That description sounds like the sort of thing that would generate a log in the Console app. People who can read those, I can't, can look at them and tell you precisely what caused the crash. Could be corrupt software, or some erratic hardware glitch.

 

Next time it does this, open Console, and look for some crash or error log that was just created. You'll see all the reboot activity, so read back and see if something sticks out as causing the crash. These logs entries are time stamped. That may help tracking down what triggered the crash. Past that, I can't help much. I just don't have the knowledge to really read crash logs well. Some things stick out tho, so maybe you'll find something.

Thanks Jim

 

ZC

You're welcome.

could this be a corrupted project/file issue? what constitutes a corrupted project/file and can it cause such issues as I am describing?, I am currently having no issues with my latest project and am working up to matching the new project identically to the problem one (in the hope of finding the offending plug in lest that is the problem and not LPX or my MBP.)

 

PS. checked RAM-all good

 

ZC

Don't know if this will help, but If you hold down the D key when you boot the machine, it will run run some built in diagnostics. I've never tried that on a damaged Mac, didn't know the function existed until yesterday. Just to see what it does I ran it on my new one and, no surprise, if didn't find anything wrong, so I've no idea how thoroughly it checks whatever it checks. Might give that a try.

I've done that and all is ok, still pursuing the corrupted LPX project/file theory

 

ZC

There is a lot more to this than I thought and LPX may not be the problem

 

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-pro-shuts-down-for-no-reason.2020272

 

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/433516/MacBook+Pro+Shuts+down+randomly#answer545192

 

https://outluch.wixsite.com/rmbp-crash

 

ZC

Has it ever crashed when you were doing something else besides running Logic ?

 

Looking at those links, learning to decipher Console crash logs seems to be in your future

 

Really, tho, when it crashes, go back and see what those say. Save them, print them out, or even post them on some tech forum if you don't see anything. Whatever it takes.