using logic for live performance?

So, i'm thinking of using logic for live performance because Mainstage let me down. (Thanks to dewdman i had a super nice working setup, but it's impossible to troubleshoot the dropping playback.)

 

i'll have a separate partition with separate logic config merely for live performance.

here's what i have done:

- disable all latency compensation

- setup all tracks, route controller directly to soft instruments via environment, then automate bypass (looks fine so far)

 

I have 2 little knobs controllers for doing headphone mixes, is it better that i use an audio track with input monitoring, or an aux track directly, for live audio inputs?

 

I also use electric bass - same question, audio track with live input or Aux track?

 

i'm thinking of doing the meta event for playback stop (like here:

) and program a midi controller to invoke "go to marker #" as song selection.

one issue i see with meta event is that it never stops "on point"

I don't touch laptop during live performance, so mainstage on screen controls really don't do anything for me.

 

another issue is that it's hard to assign MORE commands to a single command in logic. Any way around that?

 

Also, is it possible to assign knobs to particular channel strips, fixed? so not to "send 1 of current fader" but "send1 of that specific track"

any takers?

is it better that i use an audio track with input monitoring, or an aux track directly, for live audio inputs?

Technically there's no difference, but conceptually, if you ever might want to record those signals, an audio track can do exactly that.

 

one issue i see with meta event is that it never stops "on point"

Why is that a problem ? You let the song run until it's finished and then it hits the Stop meta event. It does not matter if it sits in silence at 12.1.1.1 or at 12.1.1.23. Then you teleport to another marker which is just a hair before the first click of the next song on the set list. Then, when the bras and panties begin ceasing to fly to the stage, you hit play.

 

another issue is that it's hard to assign MORE commands to a single command in logic. Any way around that?

Might be possible or not. Name an examle.

 

Also, is it possible to assign knobs to particular channel strips, fixed? so not to "send 1 of current fader" but "send1 of that specific track"

I would hardwire this in the Environment, but that is just me. You can also do this in the Controller Assignments where it says: "Channel Strip : "Selected Track". Change this to "Audio 15" and you're set.

Neat! thanks for the input, appreciate.

 

i'm thinking i'll just crate a dummy audio track with only input when i want to record it, so i don't accidentally "disable" input monitoring.

 

I think assigning "go to next marker" and "stop" to the same command if i accidentally skip before the meta event hits, the playback won't just continue.

also, is it smart to Bypass smart synths (and re-enable them on marker?) that way soft instruments that aren't used wouldn't consume resources... seems effective.

 

maybe some kind of preset switching would work too, since i recreated most of live sounds in Hive2 and i just use that almost exclusively.

edit:

oh, Hive2 has MIDI programs so you can recall them via program changes. Ain't that convenient.

I think assigning "go to next marker" and "stop" to the same command if i accidentally skip before the meta event hits, the playback won't just continue.

I'd do that differently. I'd let Logic jump to the next song by itself, then stop at the head of the song, not at the end. Check this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142248

 

is it smart to Bypass smart synths (and re-enable them on marker?)

Uh, that smells like unpredictable CPU overloads right there. On the same token, bounce everything to plain audio that you don't need/want to tweak on stage. No plugins or soft instrument unless you really work them. Takes much load off your computer.

I mostly use Hive2, i had 9 instances in mainstage, i can just use midi presets and keep it un bypassed.

 

oh i see what you mean. i just need to leave half a bar or so free so the meta event has leeway for stopping.

 

That way i just need to hit "play", and i can rearrange setlist with arrangement track easily.

(Edit: oh wait now that won,t work, but rearranging regions with goto markers would work (like you described in the other thread)

 

actually if i lock the "go to marker" tracker, i can lock it so it keeps in place and still use arrangement... but i dont think it's going to be better anyway.

 

jesus, that's so clever.

 

thanks a lot fuzz, lots of help there. much more confident now.

I think assigning "go to next marker" and "stop" to the same command if i accidentally skip before the meta event hits, the playback won't just continue.

I'd do that differently. I'd let Logic jump to the next song by itself, then stop at the head of the song, not at the end. Check this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142248

 

is it smart to Bypass smart synths (and re-enable them on marker?)

Uh, that smells like unpredictable CPU overloads right there. On the same token, bounce everything to plain audio that you don't need/want to tweak on stage. No plugins or soft instrument unless you really work them. Takes much load off your computer.

 

ha, check this out. I put the "stop" meta events on an external midi track going to IAC (sequencer input is disabled anyway)

i assigned a key command "go to next marker" to a random CC event on the IAC, so at the end of each song, playback stops and jumps to next song.

I have every song encapsulated with an arrange track marker, so i can move and re-arrange the setlist on the fly without any issues and they all have "move to next marker/stop" embedded in them.

why not clip windows would be great if it comes like DP or Ableton

 

why not clip windows would be great if it comes like DP or Ableton

It's more likely to look like GarageBand:

 

tbh i prefer a timeline. if something from DP, i would love Chunks.

 

i tried using ableton for live but clips are a pain in the ass. I have a lot of tempo changes in tracks and clips didnt play well with that.

This is what you are after.

http://fluqe.com/?page_id=7823

Well, on the surface OnStage looks nice, but if you're dealing with just three or four tracks per song, like in their video, you might as well find a way to pack them into one project and figure out a way to jump inside that project.

 

If you have a real project, with dozens of tracks, and actual instruments loading samples, this will increase load times significantly, and staring nervously at a seemingly frozen progress bar while the crowd is cheering is not a situation you want to be in (which I assume is why they actually didn't suggest it).

 

So either way I'm not sure what the benefit really is.

Well some serious acts are using it and I’ve run it in the past with great results. Load times in logic are not long. If they are you need to rethink your live set. However, I use DP and Mainstage for live as Chunks are awesome. Sure it takes a bit of work to make the transfer but it is rock solid.

My live set, FWIW, does not require loading anything at all during the performance, or even Logic to be in Play. I hit a pad on a Roland SPD, and the MIDI note triggers an EXS with as many song-long samples as I want, branched out to single EXS outputs. Songs are accessible either from an array of clickable tiles, a menu or a programmable set list with a "next song" button, all of which then route the SPD notes (which are always the same) to the correct EXS keys. So no loading times, instant access to all songs and still a set list to gaze at when being bored in the second verse.

Interesting but that would never work in my situation. Time code, commands, clicks, patch changes, and more are needed to synchronize various components and for the other musicians.

 

End the end we all could make it work one way or the other.

 

Back to the OP topic, I personally have found the STOP META command to be terribly unreliable. Maybe it has improved but I don't think it ever got addressed.

I've used OnStage for years now, but the older version. I don't plan on 'upgrading' to the new version and the company frustrates me. For my normal gigs I do have to close and open multiple songs and I want to never touch my computer. If you have no plans on changing the setlist after it has been decided for the night then I think the newer version would be fine. I like the flexibility of the older version that allows me to change my setlist on the fly. But the company has terrible customer support and when they released the version of OnStageX that I use (they needed to update it to work with Logic X) it never worked properly, it wouldn't always completely close one song when loading another. It still doesn't work right, I have a CC programmed to 'close project without saving changes' and then use OnStageX to launch the next song. Fluqe never released an update to fix it, never responded my requests and then disappeared for a while only to come back with a new, MUCH more expensive version ($99 vs $29) that wasn't as flexible. (or you can $79 month for the features that the old version had, WHAT A BARGAIN!!!)

 

One could use a program like Keyboard Maestro to do this same thing, assign CC commands to launch projects.

 

Logic itself is GREAT for live work. I do very complicated and sophisticated splits and controls that allow me to have a very, very live set.

 

Here are a couple of posts I've made about how I use it

 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=128981

 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=119908

I've not played out live for a few years now, but i did try Logic for a bit - but man, twice it crapped out on me when the controller assignments i had set up for my external hardware controls just stopped responding. All i can think is that a MIDI device had changed somewhere and lost it's link.

 

Worse was that i was going direct out of interface to PA, i was so confident with my setup that i stopped taking a mixer with me, so i needed it for mic levels and all sorts.

 

So, if you're making direct mappings to channels backup the control surfaces prefs file, and try plugging in your devices in different ports etc to make sure it's bulletproof.

 

I ended up going hardware synths (Swapping splits etc. manually via their performance/set functions) and then used traktor controlled by virtual decks to cue any music/fx up with loop/cue points all setup ready - and then out via a analog mixer. Was much more exciting to play out live too that way, particularly being able to stray from the path and freestyle with the crowd. But that setup doesn't suit many people, i guess.

 

That said, most i ever played to was a few hundred so not overly critical if the whole thing went tits up.

 

In fact, i had a full on panic/anxiety attack one night as i hadn't eaten/drunk much that day, been in the sun, busy setting all the equipment up, sorting tickets for people - and when i was ready to play i felt really lousy and off-balance. Felt like the walls were coming in on me to be honest. Was horrible.

 

So Traktor was a saviour as i looped some stuff while with a slow filter sweep on - as i was diving out the fire exit for air every 10 mins to try and get myself feeling sane, text my girlfriend in the end to grab some chips and drink and i was throwing them in my mouth while the set was playing under the desk lol.

 

Was definitely a night for the stoners that one, they loved it lol.

Has anyone here tried out the looping sequencer ALK by Zenaud.io?

https://zenaud.io

 

• "ALK will follow your arrangement, pressing the necessary virtual pedals to arm channels, trigger effects, and record and play loops at the right time."
  

 

Looks impressive and might be great with Mainstage, I've been meaning to find the time to try it out. It uses AU and/or VSTs, has audio and MIDI looping, automation, quantization and I think you can park the sequencer in sections for indefinite jamming. Even includes a panic button to switch to a backup recording if you make a mistake while performing a loop.

 

Originally designed for the Mac they recently introduced a Windows version and are a bit bogged down getting everything working there. I think I read that they hope to return soon to improving the mac version and also plan for an IOS version.

I've not played out live for a few years now, but i did try Logic for a bit - but man, twice it crapped out on me when the controller assignments i had set up for my external hardware controls just stopped responding. All i can think is that a MIDI device had changed somewhere and lost it's link.

 

Worse was that i was going direct out of interface to PA, i was so confident with my setup that i stopped taking a mixer with me, so i needed it for mic levels and all sorts.

 

So, if you're making direct mappings to channels backup the control surfaces prefs file, and try plugging in your devices in different ports etc to make sure it's bulletproof.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I NEVER use Smart Controls or any sort of learned assignment. Mine never never never work as expected, constantly getting reassigned to different midi controllers. I cable EVERYTHING in the environment that I need to control live. This is one of the reasons I couldn't have a single project for multiple songs. But once you get used to doing it it becomes pretty simple.

Has anyone here tried out the looping sequencer ALK by Zenaud.io?

https://zenaud.io

 

• "ALK will follow your arrangement, pressing the necessary virtual pedals to arm channels, trigger effects, and record and play loops at the right time."
  

 

Looks impressive and might be great with Mainstage, I've been meaning to find the time to try it out. It uses AU and/or VSTs, has audio and MIDI looping, automation, quantization and I think you can park the sequencer in sections for indefinite jamming. Even includes a panic button to switch to a backup recording if you make a mistake while performing a loop.

 

Originally designed for the Mac they recently introduced a Windows version and are a bit bogged down getting everything working there. I think I read that they hope to return soon to improving the mac version and also plan for an IOS version.

 

This is the sort of thing that Apple should by and integrate in to Logic

This is the sort of thing that Apple should by and integrate in to Logic

 

Yes, or to fill the role of Mainstage's missing full featured sequencer/looper. I just downloaded the free 30 day demo to my old 2011 i7 laptop. Had to remove some old VSTs that crashed during validation. AUs passed fine. CPU hovering at 30% with 2 plugins instantiated (Pianoteq 5 and Spitfire Labs) on this old dual core computer.

 

First impressions, after 1 hour MIDI only use: Very different workflow seems well thought out and geared for speedy entry. (Ex: hover pointer over track to "audition" it to live midi input.) Also appreciate that there is a visual metronome option, rather shocking flashing light.

so happy this thread has so much life.

 

anyway, i've decided to try a single-project approach first.

Logic ProX also has key commands for "select projects" for all open projects if you open more at once, i will try OnStageX if single-project approach proves to be unreliable.

 

I've tried ALK, i didn't find it intuitive, and it fails at tempo changes (which i have - a lot)

Avoid having more than one Logic project open. Nasty stuff happens, like plugin parameters get confused between projects.

Just got back to this lively discussion and took a look. The version from Zenaud.io I downloaded yesterday is ALK2 version 2.2.5. Maybe you had an old version.

 

There is now 'scripted tempo automation' (for pre programmed tempo changes?) While briefly testing I even accidentally changed tempo with a live cc input.

Avoid having more than one Logic project open. Nasty stuff happens, like plugin parameters get confused between projects.

holy s#!+, that's insane.

 

in nay case, current setup (playback only so far) doesn't even spin the fans up and it's 12 tracks, 7 stems/track loaded.

 

granted, i have 2 or 3 additional software instruments and two live inputs but still.

Just got back to this lively discussion and took a look. The version from Zenaud.io I downloaded yesterday is ALK2 version 2.2.5. Maybe you had an old version.

 

There is now 'scripted tempo automation' (for pre programmed tempo changes?) While briefly testing I even accidentally changed tempo with a live cc input.

 

will check it out. There are a few limitations for me, since I do use sculpture for a few live sounds which means i'm confined to either logic or mainstage (or running one of those in background)

I'm hoping it integrates well with mainstage. Will try some of that tomorrow. Here is a zenaud.io video of a simple prerecorded tempo change:

Avoid having more than one Logic project open. Nasty stuff happens, like plugin parameters get confused between projects.

 

 

I definitely agree with this

I'm hoping it integrates well with mainstage. Will try some of that tomorrow. Here is a zenaud.io video of a simple prerecorded tempo change:

 

yeah, ramps

 

there'll be a time when i'll quantise tempo changes, but it's not that time yet.

 

and yes i know ramps are iffy in logic

I played a first show in Logic a few days ago and it went really well, can't complain.