Fan constantly running in Logic with new 16" MacBook Pro & not sure why?

Fan noise is just a deal breaker for me

Fan noise is just a deal breaker for me

 

sold

We recently procured the 2019 iMac i9 at the college I teach at, and it might be the best audio platform I've worked on. Fans are silent for us, no issues. Running Mojave and wired peripherals that nobody wants to steal.

 

I'm thinking this is what I'm going to do. I just priced out the comparable iMac (3.6 GHz i9, 32GB ram, 2 TB SSD) and it only came out to 100 bucks more than my 16" MBP (not counting my educator discount). Fan noise is just a deal breaker for me. There's absolutely no way I can do a mix while having to ignore the fan noise that is coming out of this thing.

The iMac 2019's RAM is user upgradable (only the 27 inches). So get the 8GB and save up some money. You can upgrade the RAM yourself by opening the RAM slot on the back.

I'm just curious the relationship between the Logic Performance Meter's processing thread use and the need for my new MacBook Pro (64 gigs of RAM, i9 processor, etc.) to constantly run the fans as it surprisingly is doing. Here's what the Performance Meter looks like:

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-20 at 10.39.12 PM.png

 

and Activity Monitor:

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-20 at 10.39.30 PM.png

 

Yet the fans are still constantly running from the moment I start working in my session. Just curious if there's anything that can be done to reduce this and what might be going on as it's pretty loud and distracting and I was presuming with such a faster computer it might only be noticeable intermittently.

 

Thanks for any thoughts -

rj

Hey RJ.

Do you still have problems with the fans? I heard from someone that the fan noise is for initial setup and for the processor to know your workload. Can you please tell me if you still have the issue? Any overload issues as such?

I'm planning to buy one to replace my iMac, so I can carry it around for work.

Need your help bro.

Hey RJ.

Do you still have problems with the fans? I heard from someone that the fan noise is for initial setup and for the processor to know your workload. Can you please tell me if you still have the issue? Any overload issues as such?

I'm planning to buy one to replace my iMac, so I can carry it around for work.

Need your help bro.

initial setup does take some more CPU.

but the "processors knowing your workload" i just utter nonsense and doesnt exist.

Hey RJ.

Do you still have problems with the fans? I heard from someone that the fan noise is for initial setup and for the processor to know your workload. Can you please tell me if you still have the issue? Any overload issues as such?

I'm planning to buy one to replace my iMac, so I can carry it around for work.

Need your help bro.

initial setup does take some more CPU.[

but the "processors knowing your workload" i just utter nonsense and doesnt exist.

Right. Thanks for that, now I know that's complete bullshit.

I still need to check if the fan noise has gotten any better and how will it perform while working on plugins like Omnisphere and Serum to make my decision.

Try installing an app to disable the discret GPU (like gfxCardStatus or something else) and force using only the integrated GPU. If you don't need super high quality graphics this will still hold on, and will reduce fans drastically (I think latest generation mbps have bad heat exchange design around the discret GPU so its not only related to power usage.

Hope this helps

Yes, but doesn't using an external monitor require the discrete graphics chip being active ? Almost all my Logic work is with an external monitor connected to the MBP, so disabling the GPU wouldn't work. It's been a long time since I've thought about this issue. My solution was an app to turn the fans up a bit when needed. Not all the time, just when the machine is running hot. The fan noise doesn't bother me, but the very hot case top does. I suspect that heat is a factor in the butterfly keyboards failing.

One last thing, Logic doesn't really heat things up as much as an astronomy program I have called Stellarium. That thing will send my i9 MBP into the 200 F range in no time at all. And yet, on my MacBook Air, the same program isn't a heat problem at all.

external video is hard-soldered to GPUs. it's impossible to run external screens on the internal gpu on any macbook.

heat was most definitely a factor in 3rd and 4th gen butterfly keyboard fails.

Has anyone tried "Cooling or Chill Pads"?

I'm thinking if a cooling pad makes contact with the base it will prevent the laptop from having to spin up it's fans

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=cooling+pads+for+laptops&s=price-desc-rank&qid=1591264320&ref=sr_st_price-desc-rank

In particular in the hot summer months, the fans sometimes need to run faster just to keep the laptop a nice operating temperature

I've even considered sitting the laptop on freezer packs that you would use in cooling bag for travels

Also, Apple should provide a lean mode for when recording, etc..

Something that temporarily disables spotlight, some networking things which disables icloudd syncing

I often turn off networking for this but spotlight is another one that needs controlling

Sure, but you'd have the fans on the cooling pad doing the work instead, so they'd still be noisy.

Disabling spotlight and networking is going to make zero difference to the fans spinning up, because it's working the CPU hard that does it, and that's what's happening when you are mixing multiple tracks and using plugins etc.

Spotlight *indexing* is only an issue for the main index or a rebuild, for the most part it's mostly idle and not contributing to heat.

It doesn't matter what you do, laptops, and Apple ones in particular, just don't have great cooling so if you're continually working them hard, they will get hot, and the fans will spin up. The only way around it is to use it less, or get a computer with a much better cooling environment to begin with (eg, iMac Pro, Mac Pro etc)

Sure, but you'd have the fans on the cooling pad doing the work instead, so they'd still be noisy.

 

Disabling spotlight and networking is going to make zero difference to the fans spinning up, because it's working the CPU hard that does it, and that's what's happening when you are mixing multiple tracks and using plugins etc.

 

Spotlight *indexing* is only an issue for the main index or a rebuild, for the most part it's mostly idle and not contributing to heat.

 

It doesn't matter what you do, laptops, and Apple ones in particular, just don't have great cooling so if you're continually working them hard, they will get hot, and the fans will spin up. The only way around it is to use it less, or get a computer with a much better cooling environment to begin with (eg, iMac Pro, Mac Pro etc)

well i can say that in my case, spotlight and networking do have an impact

Monitoring activity monitor I can see "mdworker" and also "cloudd" increasing the CPU usage as I create new audio files when recording with logic

It happens temporarily but enough to raise the cycles on just one core/thread, so then the fans spin up momentarily to cool that core down. I then have to wait until it stops (minute) then record next take, etc..

Disabling Network means iCloud can't sync so that solves one problem - my audio recordings go straight to iCloud Drive

So that leaves Spotlight indexing the new audio files which spikes mdworker process

And all you need is 1 core to heat up enough to cross a threshold for the fans to spin up - 6 or 8 cores makes zero difference overall, the others can be doing nothing and be cool

So a cooling pad can run at a low speed, tolerable noise level and potentially keep the case cool enough to prevent the fans spinning up

There's some useful support articles describing how logic distributes load but anyone using logic has probably already seen these

I believe there's more that apple can do to improve the situation, like spreading the load better, system vs logic

E.g. when starting logic, why does the dock freeze when clicking a different app and some other things get slow - seems to indicate that the load isn't distributed too well even though they appear to be multi-threaded..

I don't have the same Spotlight issues, but you might want to turn off spotlight indexing for your audio drive.

Recording audio to a synced folder is not a good idea in my book, and of course it's going to generate extra activity while recording - but you can just turn off wifi/netoworking if it's an issue, so that's an easy workaround too.

I don't have dock freezing issues either. What's your RAM amount in your machine? Are you recording to an SSD?

as mentioned i use iCloud Drive and still want that indexed but have now turned off indexing for the audio files folder for each song, that should help

yea the networking is quite simple to solve

16GB RAM & SSD in Macbook Pro...

Don't get me wrong the Songs are complex and FULL of stuff - I freeze all tracks I can which helps

Sometimes I can attribute the fans taking off to UAD Console - just having that UI open adds about 10% CPU which is sometimes enough to push it over the threshold - so once I have my settings I quit it

I also work on a 1080p monitorand lower res UI definitely helps

Colder days are better, warmer are challenging...

cooling/chill mats anyone tried them?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KLIMTM-Ultimate-Laptop-Cooling-backlighting-RGB/dp/B07NNQXTQT/ref=alex_attr_sims_c_t1_1/260-7966831-9902656?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07NNQXTQT&pd_rd_r=8572449a-cde1-4949-84da-c4d9707c30e5&pd_rd_w=WomNT&pd_rd_wg=e0V12&pf_rd_p=5a049b35-22e7-4a5d-9586-cabe711af4ee&pf_rd_r=0H7QPZWRK1WKNH9WDNEJ&psc=1&refRID=0H7QPZWRK1WKNH9WDNEJ

Yes, Console is quite heavy on the CPU I understand...

I do have a little desktop fan which comes in handy on warm days when I'm working the processor...

Useful discussion so far - but... my MacBook Pro does not have a discrete GPU and suffers from heat/fan related issues.

It is a 2018 13" 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7. Temperature sensor apps indicate that it adds 10º at CPU and GPU just by opening Logic, let alone using it. And fans are generally on at 3500 rpm (audible on recordings).

I would genuinely consider a Mini or something that can go in a box out of hearing if I didn't need the portability for live (Mainstage etc).

Confusingly a friend has just purchased a 2020 i5 version which is silent.

Is the i7 known to be a hot processor that the case design can't handle?

Useful discussion so far - but... my MacBook Pro does not have a discrete GPU and suffers from heat/fan related issues.

It is a 2018 13" 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7. Temperature sensor apps indicate that it adds 10º at CPU and GPU just by opening Logic, let alone using it. And fans are generally on at 3500 rpm (audible on recordings).

I would genuinely consider a Mini or something that can go in a box out of hearing if I didn't need the portability for live (Mainstage etc).

Confusingly a friend has just purchased a 2020 i5 version which is silent.

Is the i7 known to be a hot processor that the case design can't handle?

i7 is hotter than the i5 yes. Moreover, it offers little benefit for logic in terms of performance.

I have the 2018 i5 and i can run a 10-15 track projects at 64samples/buffer for half an hour before fans even turn on.

before i had my control room built and connected, i recorded a few vocal session with it in the recording room.

backing track + two live tracks... 0 rpm fans most of the time.

i haven't regretted that i got the i5 in the 13" once in one and a half year.

Thanks Ploki - that's kinda good to hear. But only kinda because I have the i7

Is there anything documented about the i7 offering no benefit for Logic, and the i5 fan performance. Sounds like you are advocating that we all go for an i5 and forget the i7/i9 and those fancy shmancy 16" jobs?

I'm also keen to see what benefits the new Apple chips bring in terms of heat - a fanless design would be way cool - even better Logic/Mainstage on an iPad for live - but I guess that's a whole other thread!

Thanks Ploki - that's kinda good to hear. But only kinda because I have the i7

Is there anything documented about the i7 offering no benefit for Logic, and the i5 fan performance. Sounds like you are advocating that we all go for an i5 and forget the i7/i9 and those fancy shmancy 16" jobs?

I'm also keen to see what benefits the new Apple chips bring in terms of heat - a fanless design would be way cool - even better Logic/Mainstage on an iPad for live - but I guess that's a whole other thread!

depends on your use case. If you want a silent laptop, get a 13" i5.

if you want a lot of performance in a portable form factor, get a 16".

i had the very first i9 15" and returned it because it was terrible, and with another user here that had the i7 we did some benchmarks and i9 practically never had an edge.

In this particular case, the i5 vs i7 on the 13" is a very similar chip - both are Quad-core, both have hyperthreading and the only difference is clock speed. since these chips depend on turbo a lot - and the turbo is limited - i7 in 90% of scenarios re:logic won't give any edge over the i7.

Similar in the 16", the higher clocked i9 is essentially the same as the lower clocked i9. the i7 is only a 6-core.

on the previous gen, the i7 was basically the same 6-core as the i9, but lower clocked, so i9 offered no practical benefit.

on the Mini, i5 vs i7 means one has hyperthreading and the other doesn't, so there's a significant performance gap there.

The problem with these upgrades is that they're expensive, and the next years base-model likely outperforms this years top model.

i.e., the 2020 10. gen i5 is a better chip than the 2018 8. gen i7.

Hi all!

Just chiming in on this to see if anyone has managed to get some relief. I'm running a MBP 16 Inch (2019), i9 8 Core 2.3 GHz with 16 GB RAM. It gets seriously hot after about 20 or 30 minutes on Logic and then the fans start going crazy. I took it to the Apple store and their techs did a battery of test on it and said everything is normal. The conversation, unsurprisingly, then went something like this...They said: 'If you're going to push Logic so hard that's the price you'll have to pay'. I said 'Surely running it so hot isn't good for the internal components'. They said, 'It's fine, but maybe don't push Logic so hard'. I said 'That's why I bought the laptop - my old one couldn't keep up'. They said 'Oh, I see'.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Handing it back and exchanging it for an older Mac Pro or iMac isn't an option for me. Besides, they're standing firm and saying that there's nothing wrong with the laptop so are unwilling to take it back. So...has anyone managed to find any relief? I have installed iStats menu and can keep the laptop to a manageable temperature by manually spinning the fans at 30%. I'd obviously rather not have the fan noise though, but I'm seriously worried about how hot the laptop gets (and as I said before, what damage it could be doing internally), almost too hot to touch after about 30 minutes on Logic. I know these laptops are designed to withstand extreme temperatures, but I anticipated this thing lasting me a good 5 or 6 years - not burning out after 2 or 3.

Eternally optimistic,

Dave.

There are a slew of temp sensors inside the unit, it it gets ‘too hot’ it will shut it self down, otherwise it is just hot. Charge from the right side ports, directly, not through an adapter, make sure it has ventilation and accept the fact that that much power in that small a package means heat, and heat means fans. Will the heat kill the components? Probably not in normal, even heavy usage.

There is a reason that Apple *never* calls this a laptop, they do not want people putting then on their laps.

There are a slew of temp sensors inside the unit, it it gets ‘too hot’ it will shut it self down, otherwise it is just hot. Charge from the right side ports, directly, not through an adapter, make sure it has ventilation and accept the fact that that much power in that small a package means heat, and heat means fans. Will the heat kill the components? Probably not in normal, even heavy usage.

 

There is a reason that Apple *never* calls this a laptop, they do not want people putting then on their laps.

Thanks for the tip on the charging port - I never thought of that. I've succumbed to Turbo Boost Switcher and I just did an hour on Logic with turbo boost off and all my plugins running - fans stayed silent and temp is much lower

However, all 16 threads are now bumping up around 70 -75% on the CPU meter when I would normally get only about 12 or so bumping 40-50 % with turbo boost on.

We'll see what happens when I start adding automation