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Christopher11
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Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:02 am

I have reached the limit of what my MB Pro can do, and need a new machine to continue producing music. I'm looking at 2010-2012 Mac Pros on Ebay. I definitely intend to buy one with an SSD for the boot drive, and lots of RAM, probably 64 GB. I wanted to ask you guys what your thoughts were on this in general... and specifically about https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/261 scores for single versus multiple cores. This machine that I link to below has 3.33 Ghz Hex 6 core with 512 GB SSD and 64 GB of Ram, gets a single core score on Geekbench of 573, but multi core score of 2148. Does Logic Pro X support multi core processing?

Thank you for any reply.

p.s. I apologize I don't know how on this forum to use linked text, so you don't have to see the entire long URL.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-3-33GHz-Hex-6-Core-High-Sierra-2TB-HDD-512GB-SSD-64GB-RAM/193366741449?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d058e51c9:g:VbIAAOSwHuxdnNrS&enc=AQAEAAACcIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXK4PLYVaIgu9w9Os2XtDHJend94BvsGyWTB0yANk6MHa8jKUW93IJJpofUPiQwYJMe9tuR%2FeYrBxiT0uMxngiYsrqi0Wkj7vcwwIqgp8iR3wpLVw9CAHBLFJVRmEAI4nC2Iua84RAB1EIovo9ITpof9oo6oUmTdIZRGZtaRhHioZFY2UM6ZJUnFxT2okcUKO5TsvrY0tsWMNYBcPV2dcQ7PFJBZBnv3e8UQoNeiYawmUsedxqAvf3PSZQmzi7rBFmJWGGvxViTrrM6kmXKz%2FSlWUnBdPPc%2FOdDbFXR%2BHKZDUONKjMqog4S9ahZKfPxNs6CSw%2FiUtKVgLVT366denlPLzU0VVl4K2dHhH2kez7ccbvgqHM743pL77s4RXf6Xp4svMnB1vxpuD6B914EUY8HRW2lhjE%2BrDbegIVxt3aWiFye7huLGWt6Cytum86sbLuZxgVrzEjYHmFb%2B%2BT8LMUzcS9v%2BEwxVNhYpH6fNUtSuJA5n8iHlH3R0p274YkCuMcuKLMI1uAyfuaGZ4ySi%2FRK7djbSHJ%2BcGRdEo1csX0QtKFwnbz5iW1FXgWHZRK9yFTqHBvyZf1pHdrHpieVxzHHfH64x6haPsQYMlonlRCtXVRNmLX4hStuiGKmA5Be3SNyBqZy1Sg4t2eBSXT9pjWpyWQFbcOUAS3QieMyIK3MnXI1QzzZI2aFUiRAZxL%2FrmG%2FoRECAb2Ta7HurOOF0O7pSj%2Bp3zemn2oOts7DvObY%2FwNBFdwTpKd0z%2BcHwFHVD6nZT%2BZ4hBEgFL0iJTj6gPFuqg%3D%3D&checksum=1933667414496f891676d3b846bbbf21d0864ea3910c
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triplets
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am

Honestly, if you're gonna spend a 1000 bucks on a 6-core from 2010-2012, you might wanna consider the new Mac Mini.

Old Mac Pros should be 12-cores to be worth the investment for Logic purposes.
Also remember you don't have native USB 3.0 for external drives, so you have to get a PCI card.
No native Thunderbolt and you can't get past High Sierra without hacking the OS and getting a Metal capable graphics card.
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:13 pm

triplets, thank you bro, and I'm sure that's good advice. I looked at 2018 and beyond mac minis, and it seemed like I could probably get more processing power and storage for the money if I went with the older upgrade Mac Pro. Feel free to dissent; I'm here to learn. I have a number of FW peripherals including my 802 RME converters, an additional HD to throw in for storage from an old Mac Pro, and in general feel comfortable with the connectivity and size of these older machines. To get comparable specs, it seemed like a Mac Mini, being newer, might well cost considerably more. This is a power mac I might make an offer on for example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-12-CORE-M ... 864ea3910c
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:22 pm

I am using a 2012 Mac Pro and I love it and plan to use it for several more years. I do not love any current macs except the 2019 macPro which I can't afford.

I don't think 6 cores is enough though. But you'll be closer to 2k if you get a 12 core fully loaded machine like mine. I also upgraded mine to the fastest CPU possible 3.46ghz. I think $1k is kind of a lot for the 6 core machine you quoted, but maybe not, I haven't really investigated those. I bought mine refurbished, came with a warranty, but you might find used ones for less.

In answer to your question, yes LogicPro will use multiple cores. I did some benchmarking and will try to find the results, but basically I wanted to compare geekbench reports from my 2012 MacPro against newer models..and basically the jist of it is, that the 2012 MacPro, if fully loaded with 12 cores at 3.46ghz doesn't do half bad at multi-core scores. It does better then current mini actually, but the mini does better at single core performance, which is what matters for your live channel you are hosting instruments. But I haven't found any instruments keeping me down just yet.

Also the 2012 MacPro does not have AVX in the CPU, which means you won't be able to run MassiveX or ModoDrums... Those are the only products I know of that require AVX as of now, but that could always change in the future.

Also the 2012 MacPro was officially deprecated by Apple, you will not be able to officially run Catalina on it. Though it is still possible to install Catalina and it apparently works fine. I'm happy on Mojave for the foreseeable future. I plan to get 2-3 more years out of this box as my primary machine, after that we shall see.

Anyway, I personally think a 6 core you are considering may disappoint you a little. You can go to the geekbench site and compare scores of various machines, I'm sure there will be scores there for that model. Compare it to say, my model...your single core scores will be about like mine...ok, but not great...and your multicore scores will also be ok, not great. But... I guess a fully loaded up 12 core like mine is probably closer to $2k...its been that much for a long time and is still holding its value due to the 2019 Mac Pro being so expensive.

I use PCI and also I like using my 4k 32" monitor, like I said, so for me I'm very happy with this setup and would absolutely not trade it for any mini or iMac that is currently available, regardless of $$$. I will use this until the price of new MacPros comes back down to reality somehow... So its great, but I did go with 12 cores and I later even upgraded from 3.33 to 3.46ghz just to have the absolute fastest and bestest 2012 MacPro I could make. And i'm quite happy with it...but I don't know how I'd feel about 6 cores. But... The machine you spec'd is half the price too...so there is always that.

FWIW, when I get a new mac eventually, I think this macpro will still be quite functional for quite some time to come in some kind of capacity...a file server, VePro slave, windows machine even if I have to. Its definitely the best computer I have personally ever owned and I love using it every single day.
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:27 pm

Here's a post I did a few months ago where I benchmarked my 5,1 and compared with some other models..this was when the new MacPro was first coming out...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145393&hilit=geekbench&start=40#p757214

There is a chart there so you can see visually. But remember the 6 core version, cut the multicore bar roughly in half compared to mine.

Single-Core%20Comparison-3.png
Single-Core%20Comparison-3.png (13.72 KiB) Viewed 521 times

Multi-Core%20Comparison-3.png
Multi-Core%20Comparison-3.png (13.23 KiB) Viewed 516 times
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:38 pm

Christopher11 wrote:
This is a power mac I might make an offer on for example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-12-CORE-M ... 864ea3910c


That machine would not be a terrible machine, and for that price..that would be a great setup..honestly... But just remember some of the things said... doesn't have TB3. Doesn't have USB3. Can't officially run Catalina. Also, you will probably have to upgrade the video card to run Mojave, but I highly recommend that, it improved performance quite a lot. I also ended up buying a PCI card to host my sample SSD's at sata3 speeds and I upgraded the CPU and memory to max. But 3.33ghz is only 10% slower then mine, I think you will be pretty happy with it. Its not a huge difference and that is a helluva a good price IMHO.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:51 pm

The 12-core you linked, the seller puts USB 3.0 in the connectivity. Hogwash. That machine has USB 2.0
You need to get an additional PCIe card for USB 3.0, which it doesn't seem to have according to the pictures. I hope you understand that the seller is doing false claims.

That machine is definitely better than your 2012 MBP. And if you have lots of "old" port peripherals, it's the way to go.
I have a 2009 12-core myself that I hacked the crap out of, and it's a beautiful and powerful machine running Mojave and the latest Logic.
I also put an SSD on the second DVD bay for the system drive and I have 4 extra HD bays. Can't beat that.
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:00 pm

Dewdman42 wrote:
I am using a 2012 Mac Pro and I love it and plan to use it for several more years. I do not love any current macs except the 2019 macPro which I can't afford.

I don't think 6 cores is enough though. But you'll be closer to 2k if you get a 12 core fully loaded machine like mine. I also upgraded mine to the fastest CPU possible 3.46ghz. I think $1k is kind of a lot for the 6 core machine you quoted, but maybe not, I haven't really investigated those. I bought mine refurbished, came with a warranty, but you might find used ones for less.

In answer to your question, yes LogicPro will use multiple cores. I did some benchmarking and will try to find the results, but basically I wanted to compare geekbench reports from my 2012 MacPro against newer models..and basically the jist of it is, that the 2012 MacPro, if fully loaded with 12 cores at 3.46ghz doesn't do half bad at multi-core scores. It does better then current mini actually, but the mini does better at single core performance, which is what matters for your live channel you are hosting instruments. But I haven't found any instruments keeping me down just yet.

Also the 2012 MacPro does not have AVX in the CPU, which means you won't be able to run MassiveX or ModoDrums... Those are the only products I know of that require AVX as of now, but that could always change in the future.

Also the 2012 MacPro was officially deprecated by Apple, you will not be able to officially run Catalina on it. Though it is still possible to install Catalina and it apparently works fine. I'm happy on Mojave for the foreseeable future. I plan to get 2-3 more years out of this box as my primary machine, after that we shall see.

Anyway, I personally think a 6 core you are considering may disappoint you a little. You can go to the geekbench site and compare scores of various machines, I'm sure there will be scores there for that model. Compare it to say, my model...your single core scores will be about like mine...ok, but not great...and your multicore scores will also be ok, not great. But... I guess a fully loaded up 12 core like mine is probably closer to $2k...its been that much for a long time and is still holding its value due to the 2019 Mac Pro being so expensive.

I use PCI and also I like using my 4k 32" monitor, like I said, so for me I'm very happy with this setup and would absolutely not trade it for any mini or iMac that is currently available, regardless of $$$. I will use this until the price of new MacPros comes back down to reality somehow... So its great, but I did go with 12 cores and I later even upgraded from 3.33 to 3.46ghz just to have the absolute fastest and bestest 2012 MacPro I could make. And i'm quite happy with it...but I don't know how I'd feel about 6 cores. But... The machine you spec'd is half the price too...so there is always that.

FWIW, when I get a new mac eventually, I think this macpro will still be quite functional for quite some time to come in some kind of capacity...a file server, VePro slave, windows machine even if I have to. Its definitely the best computer I have personally ever owned and I love using it every single day.



Dewdman, this is exceedingly helpful and thoughtful of you to share, thank you!

I should have stated: I use El Capitan currently, and hope to continue with that as long as possible. I would go up as high as needed though to keep working, to High Sierra for example. If I can't run Catalina... I guess that's years out before it's a problem for me. I don't care if it runs Tiktok. ; )
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:03 pm

triplets wrote:
The 12-core you linked, the seller puts USB 3.0 in the connectivity. Hogwash. That machine has USB 2.0
You need to get an additional PCIe card for USB 3.0, which it doesn't seem to have according to the pictures. I hope you understand that the seller is doing false claims.

That machine is definitely better than your 2012 MBP. And if you have lots of "old" port peripherals, it's the way to go.
I have a 2009 12-core myself that I hacked the crap out of, and it's a beautiful and powerful machine running Mojave and the latest Logic.
I also put an SSD on the second DVD bay for the system drive and I have 4 extra HD bays. Can't beat that.


Ah! interesting point on the USB 3.0. I don't really care if it's 3 or 2.0... but I will mention this when I make an offer, in attempt to bring the price down even lower. Thank you for the heads up on that. It is super useful to know you are running a 2009 machine. Smart way to do the upgrades yourself, and construct a screamer of a machine. Yeah, it's gonna be so nice to be able to stack plugins and reverbs and have my machine hardly flinch. Plus sometimes I'm running Final Cut Pro, several browsers with videos loaded, Microsoft Word, etc. ADD, I guess, but it keeps me productive to switch around and stay inspired.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:03 pm

Mojave is where you want to be. Apple made some serious performance improvements with Mojave...because of Metal. But it also means you have to upgrade the video card to one with Metal. But I got like a 10-20% improvement in geekbench scores when I went to Mojave and a metal card...FWIW. I highly recommend you plan on getting a Metal card and Mojave on it. Catalina I would steer clear of for now for various reasons..
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:05 pm

You should also find out if this machine is an original 2010 machine or if its a 2009 machine that was hot rodded. They both work equally well, but original 2010 machines do have a slightly higher resale value. 2009 machines can have their firmware updated via hacks to become basically exactly the same as 2010. But technically speaking they aren't. But I know people using them without any problems whatsoever...
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:35 pm

Excellent, thank you. I suppose people will be honest about 2010, or 2012. It would even be helpful if they wrote 'mid 2012' etc. Although I believe 2010 to 2012 were essentially the same architecture, albeit with increasing amounts of CPU power, RAM and storage?

A quick question regarding all this. Obviously I intend to use the SSD as my boot drive, and the drive from which I run Logic and VST apps. Currently my HD is 1 TB and I intend to migrate my profile with everything already installed and hit the ground running, able to work right away. What if it's only 500GB SSD? I only need to migrate essential apps and samples, plus VSTs right? I wonder if I could make them fit. I hope so... since a lot of my HD is devoted to old Logic projects, plus various Word document and images / videos that I don't mind at all storing on additional spinning HDs.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:54 pm

Mac minis don't have a GPU. That might not matter for you, though.

You mentioned RAM…

RAM upgrade is very easy on the iMac. You can get an additional 32GB of RAM from OWC for $150, bringing the total RAM up to 40GB. 32GB RAM from Apple is an extra $600, but for $150, you can DIY and have 40GB RAM.

USB ports matter, and USB C especially, now.

New iMacs have 4 USB type A connectors and 2 USB C connectors.

The 27" monitor is very bright, but if you already have a monitor, you might prefer a dual-monitor setup.

The built-in Facetime camera in the iMac is quite good video quality is far beyond that of what you'll get from any webcam.

You can get a new, good iMac for under $2500. The best non-Pro iMac you can get is i9 8-core. It's pro-level speet but without the pro-price tag. The new iMac is a good choice if you are looking for high performance at a fairer price.

Unlike a 9 year old Mac Pro, a new iMac will probably last you for another 10 years through all OS upgrades and new software.

Apparently, the iMacs are made in Texas. I recently ordered one and they said it was built in Texas. I'm pretty happy with it.
Last edited by GTR on Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:59 pm

2010 and 2012 are exactly the same hardware except for the serial numbers will reveal the date when they were manufactured. But they are exactly the same. The 2009 machines started out different, but later on firmware updates were possible to bring to the "same" specs as 2010/12. I don't know more details than that. The short of it is, that some people might put a little more value on a 2012 model then a 2010, but there is no reason for it, they are exactly the same. Owners of hot rodded 2009's will also argue they are exactly the same after being hacked up. But they aren't quite exactly the same, for example, if you upgrade the CPU, you have to order a slightly different part. But performance wise...exactly the same. Very close. I would not hesitate to buy the 2009 one if its a good price, but I would expect to pay a little less than a true 2010/12.

You'll have to do your own homework to find out how to detect if its a true 2010 machine vs one that started out as 2009 and has been updated to be like a 2010 machine. I don't know the exact details, but that is easy enough to find. The price this seller is asking is in my opinion, more in line for what I would expect a 2009 hot rodded model to sell for, but I haven't been following the pricing recently. I would expect them to be about $500 less then true 2010/12 models. Mine is actually 2010. At the time people wanted a few hundred bucks more for the 2012...but in that case they literally are exactly the same hardware exactly for a serial number difference. So I went with the 2010. There are a lot of happy people running the 2009 hot rodded version, but in general when I see cheap prices for MacPros, its because the machine is ACTUALLY the 2009 one that has been hot rodded.

You can definitely fit OSX on 500gb SSD. I prefer more space myself, but if you only have a few apps on there and keep your samples on a different drive, etc.. should be zero problem at all.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:08 pm

Oh yes, of course! El Capitan, as well. Plus Logic, and VSTs, and I assume my samples on the SSD when possible, so it will run better. Still, I imagine half a TB is quite a lot to achieve that? I suppose I'm better if I can just score a 1 TB SSD, so I don't have to worry. But some deals are 500GB SSD.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:15 pm

I have a 1TB with a LOT Of software installed and some samples too..and its using only 600GB of it.

more is always better of course. Most of my sample libraries are on two other SSD's, 2TB each and I plan to upgrade one of those to 4TB soon and then I'll swap the old 2TB into the boot drive slot...why not.. will move some samples there eventually. Don't forget you need space to record your projects too.

500GB is not a lot of space in general..but you can certainly install quite a bit of software on that if you aren't going to use it for saving project audio files or large sample libraries, it will be totally fine.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:27 pm

Awesome, thank you. Just to clarify, for migrating over my profile, I should be able to whittle that to a point where it's doable? This is potentially the bottleneck... I agree and don't mind storing many non essential stuffs on additional drives.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:30 pm

I have no idea without seeing what you have on there. Me personally I would install OSX fresh and clean, I would not migrate. Some others might have other opinions or advice about that.
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:23 pm

Christopher,

I have a 2010 2.66 12 core with 32gigs of RAM I am planning on selling. How soon are you looking at moving on this?

I have started finalizing and archiving some old projects. I might could expedite these projects if you are interested.

See my signature for more details.
12 Core Mac Pro 2.66/ OS 10.6.5/ Logic 9.1.3/ 32 gigs of Ram/ 3.6 TB of internal SATA Storage(WD Raptor for Audio). Glyph firewire drives(backup)/ Apple 30" Cinima Display/ UAD-2 x2/Apogee Symphony with Rosetta 800
 
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:26 pm

Will do. Thanks so much.
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