One of Logic's most Annoying (and enduring) Quirks

I have been using logic for over 20 years. I love it and am still learning and forgetting things about it. But when ever I help a newbie learn the program, I have to explain one feature that I just hate and is SO ILLOGICAL and STILL trips me up, even after all these years.

 

That is the "double duty" of the Quantize and other settings in the inspector. (But especially the Quantize since I seem to change that the most)

 

When I say double duty, I mean that these settings will either be settings you play in the part, or, if a region is selected, will be the setting for that region. I don't know about you, but I have changed one or the other many times be accident because there is very little visual feedback (only the MIDI through or Region name above) to tell you which thing you are changing.

 

When I'm helping someone learn this, I realize how clunky this system is. I think there should be two bits of information present at all times.

 

1. What Quantization or other setting you're on for "recording."

2. If any regions are selected, what quantization or other settings they have set currently. (or the * when it's multiple)

 

Anyone else feel this way or have ideas?

 

end of rant

DanRad

I've been using logic for 27 years. I personally love this feature and I think it's highly logical. Also, since X.4 (I guess) it's called MIDI Defaults and Audio Defaults respectively.

I don't dislike the feature and use it all the time... but I find it not easy to always know what's being affected by what I'm seeing in the inspector. We've been using it a long time and gotten used to it.. but try teaching this program to someone and you'll see it's confusing and often ends up affecting the wrong thing.

Also love this feature. I've never had a problem - when no regions are selected, you'll be seeing the MIDI Thru parameters, and this will be displayed in the title. When you select a region, you seeing that region's parameters, and you'll see the region name (or multiple selection).

 

I've never (from memory) got this confused. The bigger problem is that it's not necessarily intuitive for new users, but is a behaviour you need to learn. Once you do, it's fairly obvious, and offers a simple way of handling the situation, rather than having multiple sets of indentical parameters for the live input / MIDI thru side (it's not just for "recording", it's for all live input).

I remember back when I learned how this works that it clicked immediately. I saw the elegance in avoiding two separate sets of parameters and no wasted space on the interface with "to quantize what you play, use this set, but to quantize what you played, go use the other set over there". Also, no one I taught this ever showed any confusion about the implementation, so I think DanRad and I will have to agree to disagree.

I am with fuzz on this. Yes hard for newbie until it is made clear - but I too very much like this feature and use it all the time

I don't dislike the feature and use it all the time... but I find it not easy to always know what's being affected by what I'm seeing in the inspector. We've been using it a long time and gotten used to it.. but try teaching this program to someone and you'll see it's confusing and often ends up affecting the wrong thing.

I have been teaching this program for around 20 years now and have written several books about it. I have to say, I have never found this confusing, nor have I ever encountered resistance from students who didn't get it. I do remember that there was an a-HA moment the very first time someone showed it to me or I read about it (can't remember exactly) because it wasn't necessarily super obvious or intuitive to me at first that you could use the region inspector to apply default settings or batch settings. But once I got it, that was it, I never had any problem with it ever again. Kinda like riding a bike: may not be exactly intuitive or obvious before you learn, but once you know, it's second nature and you don't have to think about what you're doing other than where you want to go.

 

To know what is being affected by the Region inspector, you only have to look at the inspector title. If it says MIDI Default, then you're editing your default Region parameters. If it says Vocal #23.7, then you're editing the parameters for the region named Vocal #23.7 in your workspace, and that region is currently selected (and highlighted). If it says 12 selected, then you're editing the parameters in batch for the 12 highlighted regions in your workspace.

It would be great if when it displays a region (or regions) selected, it took on the color of the selected region (or the first region). Just like the text and background colors of the region header. I could use the visual assistance of a splash of color over there when it switches away from default settings.

It would be great if when it displays a region (or regions) selected, it took on the color of the selected region (or the first region). Just like the text and background colors of the region header. I could use the visual assistance of a splash of color over there when it switches away from default settings.

Here's my take on this.

 

When I read your suggestion my first thought was: great idea! Then I thought well to make it easier to use the parameters, maybe only the title bar of the Region inspector should take on the region color. But what if multiple regions are selected? Color of the first one you say? Hmmmm. What about the Track inspector: color of the selected track? What about the Library, should it be colored too? Before we know it, we have either an inconsistent GUI or a very distracting interface. And I know that the general direction for Apple and its choice to be a "pro" app is to keep the interface as uncluttered and non-distracting as possible. So that's a little bit my opinion but also really what I know to be the general direction and GUI choices made by Apple for Logic. They are trying to make the interface as uncluttered and distraction free as possible, and don't want too many colors everywhere. The inspectors are not supposed to capture your attention, they're supposed to disappear and be very subtle and discrete.

 

Make it a preference I hear you think (sorry now I'm putting thoughts in your brain ). Well if I had a dime for every time I've heard this I'd be a billionaire and the Logic preference window would be so cluttered, it would be unusable.

 

I know that for myself, it's not an issue anyway, and I would suggest they leave good enough alone.

I'm generally pretty confident in the team's design abilities and decisions.

I'd like maybe like to get in there and tweak their bugfix priorities a little, that's all...

I'm generally pretty confident in the team's design abilities and decisions.

I'd like maybe like to get in there and tweak their bugfix priorities a little, that's all...

 

i'd like the logic team to do exactly what i want, to solely accomodate my specific needs... because i'm a person on an internet forum, and need to have my way...

that's what matters most

When I read your suggestion my first thought was: great idea!...

 

Thank you for the thoughtful reply David.

It was a bit TLDR though so I didn't really read the rest of it.

 

Just kidding You bring up many insightful observations and I agree totally.

 

I was thinking of just coloring the region (or # of selected), I should try photoshopping the idea.

 

I'm glad DanRad brought this up because I have always felt that the appearance of the Region Inspector needs to change somehow to reflect its "Dual Purpose". It could be argued that having it remain static is inconsistent with overall GUI design.

 

Maybe a better idea is to have the Region Inspector shift its background to slightly lighter shades of gray.

 

And I agree with fisherking, It feels like we should demand that something change in there.

Time to resurrect the , command.

Well, I'm glad I'm not totally alone on this. Maybe I'm an idiot (just ask my wife ) but MANY times I have thought I was changing my "Input" setting, only to find I've changed a region setting or vice versa... causing much hair loss.

 

Here's my solution. When regions are selected, some part of the inspector changes color or highlight or something... Just like when we select a region, that region has a CHANGE IN APPEARANCE.

______________

Maybe this is a different subject for a different thread, but I've always wanted to have DIFFERENT INPUT QUANTIZATION settings for different tracks. This would be super handy. Make the piano NOT have quantization but the drums at 1/16 and the bass at 1/8 etc. Put the Input Quantization setting int the "Track" inspector instead of the Region inspector which is global. This would address this somewhat. (Though it still leaves the other things like transpose, velocity etc...)

 

I always quantize on input... then I have a key command to remove quantization should I choose to do so. BUT, I've always longed for individual track quantization settings.

Dan, respectfully, since MIDI quantizing is non-destructive personally I don’t care how it quantizes on input, because after my performance, I am likely to change the Q-Strength and Q-Range.

Everyone works differently. That's the joy of a product that offers options.

 

For example, I always quantize on the way in. Depending on the type of piece, I might change that after the fact 10% (at most) of the time. The exceptions could be almost eliminated with track based quantization. In my orchestral mock ups, for example, I always remove any quantization for harp and timp. But for most of the other stuff, I quantize.

I'd love to have a drum stack set up where Kick and Snare might have a 90% strength and the hi hat closer to 95, giving a more real feel. I may have a very gospel feel piano part with NO quantization, but a simple bass part where I would want a tight 1/8 feel, or make up for my messy playing. Instead of going back and requantizing all these variables, Track Based Quantization would speed my process, and since I am so damn lazy, make my product better with less effort.

 

Or, you could work the way we currently have to...with one setting and going back after recording, selecting regions and requantizing them.

Sure, just was wondering what you saw as the advantage, but if you get it right 90% of the time, that explains it.

I've been using logic for 27 years. I personally love this feature and I think it's highly logical. Also, since X.4 (I guess) it's called MIDI Defaults and Audio Defaults respectively.

 

Absolutely, I take advantage of this. That way newly recorded regions can assume the default settings, but I can alter them individually, giving each track as much or as little quantisation as it needs. I'm actually thankful this is not a one setting that applies to all!!

Dan, respectfully, since MIDI quantizing is non-destructive personally I don’t care how it quantizes on input, because after my performance, I am likely to change the Q-Strength and Q-Range.

 

Yeah I do this alot depending on how much or how little each individual track needs, but at least the default gives you a quick head start.