Assignments crossing over between different Modes and causing mapping issue

I have 1 Zone for my Controller. in that Zone I currently have 2 Modes, Mode 1 for mapping my Controller to Smart Controls which then controls iZotope Neuton, and Mode 2 for mapping my Controller directly to the Neutron plugin (without the Smart Controls in between). At the moment Mode 1 is setup and I'm in the process of setting up Mode 2 (no Smart Controls).

I was trying to map one of my Controller knobs to the "Width" parameter in Neutron and it wasn't working at all. I also tried to map a Controller button to the Limiter bypass switch in Neutron and it was behaving very strangely; not turning the bypass one/off until i hovered the mouse over (and hit controller button at same time) a specific set of buttons on Neutron (the 4 settings buttons above the Limiter). Both these parameters were already mapped to Smart Controls in my Mode 1, although to different midi Controller knobs i think.

 

It dawned on my that it might be an issues with the assignments crossing over one another between Modes and causing issues (not sure why this would be though as I thought thats specifically what Mode switching was for, so same parameter mappings dont effect one another). So I deleted my Smart Control "Width" mapping (from the SC inspector) and then I was successfully able to map my Controller Assignment directly to the Width parameter in Neutron. I deleted the Limiter Bypass mapping on my Smart Control thinking this would fix this issue also, but it didnt.

 

Does anyone know why these anomalies seem to be occurring?

I was in the impression that the mode was to be used for assigning a same controller to actuate two (or more) different parameters, the mode switcher button acting as the rerouter (to the other parameter). You seem to understand it the other way around...

How are you switching modes? You should be able to see mode switches in the controller assignments window, and see which assignments are being triggered by which knobs in which mode accordingly.

 

Lastly, if you're convinced you understand how Logic works in this regard, and you've set up things correctly, but are still getting some weird or buggy behaviour, then yes, this happens occasionally too and I often find it's better to create a new mode or zone and recreate the assignments in the new modes/zones and see if it works correctly then, than try to troubleshoot.

Thanks for the response guys. For the most part I have managed to set this up now but I’m still experiencing some issues and was wondering whether you might have some idea about.

 

Mode Switching Buttons:

I now have 2 functioning Mode buttons. Left button selects Mode 1, right button selects Mode 2. Is there a way to sync these two buttons so that when I hit one of them the LED turns on, and the LED on the other mode buttons turns off automatically? So I know which Mode I am in.

 

My Mode switching buttons are currently setup as follows:

Class: Mode Change

Mode: …desired Mode

Min/Max: 0 - 127

Format: Unsigned

Multiply: 1.00

Mode: Direct

Feedback: Non

 

 

Inverting a Rotary Assignment:

I currently have my Compression threshold assignment inverted so that turning the knob to the right brings the Threshold down instead of up. The issues is that when I switch Modes this assignment (and the knobs LED’s) is not updating. So I have to turn the knob all the way to position of the previous Modes value, in order to “catch” the current position in order to start controlling it (similar to how a non-infinite pot behaves).

 

My Mode comp threshold assignment is currently setup as follows:

Min/Max: 0 - 127

Format: Unsigned

Multiply: -1.00

Mode: Scaled

Feedback: None (“Automatic” creates strange behaviour)

 

 

Send On/Off Assignments:

The LED’s for the controller buttons assigned to my Send On/off buttons, are not staying lit when I press them (the actual Send On/off buttons in Logic’s mixer are turning on/off fine). I have the same setting for the on/off buttons for my plugins and the LED’s for those buttons are working as expected so don’t know why the same settings aren’t working for Send On/Off’s.

 

My assignments for these buttons are currently setup as follows:

Min/Max: 0 - 0

Format: Unsigned

Multiply: 1.00

Mode: Direct

Feedback: Automatic

 

Have attached couple of screenshots of my Zone/Mode setup also incase they help.

Any help with this would be amazing, thanks : )

 

 

 

 

There isn't anyway I know of to (directly) properly control feedback to controls from non-supported control surfaces, unfortunately. This stuff is either baked into the control surface module (in code you can't get at), or relies on simple supported handling at the controller end.

 

So it's usually not possible to easily make generic controller lights/indicators etc reflect the desired status, except under some very simple conditions - the feedback modes are mostly specific to the MCU handling, unfortunately (where they work great).

 

To do it properly either involves getting a developer kit from Apple to actually code a control surface module (which won't happen unless you're Native Instruments or something), or to build some intermediary software in between Logic and the controller to translate between them (which is sort of what I do, but I'm not actively working on that project currently).

 

BTW Soft takeover of parameters is a control surface preference - "Pickup mode".

Thats cool. What control surface are you building the software for?

 

Thanks for explaining. Starting to understand more now..

Im still not sure that explains why my plugin mute buttons are feeding back LED behaviour perfectly to the X-Touch (LED staying on/off when pressed), but I can’t manage to get the mixers Send Mutes to behave the same way with the exact same Assignment settings?

 

Also, my X-Touch Mini is a Mackie Control Protocol product so isnt it setup already to play nice with Logic? Im using it without the MC mode engaged though so is that whats creating the limited feedback functionality with Logic. If I activated the device in MC mode and then customised those Mackie Control assignments, is that possible and would that provide me more control over the way the assignments feedback LED behaviour to the pots?

 

Also, would the X-Touch Editor software potentially provide any ability for editing the way Logic feedsback LED behaviour to the X-Touch? Im still not exactly sure what the purpose of the X-Touch Editor is when also using Logics Controller Assignment window.

What control surface are you building the software for?

 

For my own requirements which aren't satisfied by other solutions. It doesn't really matter what the controller is...

 

Im still not sure that explains why my plugin mute buttons are feeding back LED behaviour perfectly to the X-Touch (LED staying on/off when pressed), but I can’t manage to get the mixers Send Mutes to behave the same way with the exact same Assignment settings?

 

I can't really tell you what's going on without looking at the messages and manuals etc.

 

Also, my X-Touch Mini is a Mackie Control Protocol product so isnt it setup already to play nice with Logic?

 

It depends. Just because a device supports the MC protocol doesn't mean it implements all the features, or has controls and displays etc to handle everything the protocol does. For instance, simple products often offer basic faders/pans/mute/solo/transport and maybe bank increments, but that's about it - they often don't give plugin control or handle many of the cool (and maybe not obvious) things you can do with an MCU.

 

Im using it without the MC mode engaged though so is that whats creating the limited feedback functionality with Logic.

 

Possibly yes, it it's designed for that purpose, then it should support the MCU's feedback mechanism if it supports feedback.

 

If I activated the device in MC mode and then customised those Mackie Control assignments, is that possible and would that provide me more control over the way the assignments feedback LED behaviour to the pots?

 

Yes, quite possibly (and is basically what I do - all my controller devices are pseudo-MCU devices with customised assignments for the desired behaviour I want.)

 

Also, would the X-Touch Editor software potentially provide any ability for editing the way Logic feedsback LED behaviour to the X-Touch? Im still not exactly sure what the purpose of the X-Touch Editor is when also using Logics Controller Assignment window.

 

No idea as I don't use that product. Most likely the editors just help you set up generic MIDI controller handling (ie, make fader 1 transmit CC 49 etc) which is usually a different mode than MCU mode, which requires the controls to send specific messages in order to work.

Did you have the occasion to read the dedicated Logic Controller manual?

There is probably a more recent version of same (my link open v.10.3)...

That link didn’t work for me. But if you’re referring to the Controller Assignment manual on Apples website, yet Ive been referring to it constantly before posting on here. Some of its very difficult to understand though for a newb. And setting up custom assignments seems to involve altering a lot of variables to get things to behave as you want them to. I’m learning (slowly). Currently trying to understand the data in the Value Change field and it’s blowing my mind :/

Yes, it's quite a deep learning curve for the non-programmer types of people.

 

It really helps to have an MCU so you can relate how it works, how it's setup and what buttons are etc and see how those mappings facilitate that, as the MCU is really a reference implementation of everything supported by Logic.

Yeah I was thinking that might be the way forward. So will my X-Touch Mini give me the same info as the MCU would in terms of looking at general knob and button behaviour?

I was thinking of setting my X-Touch mini up anyway to sit alongside my Console 1 and use it as a Fader, Pan and solo controller (decided to use my Console 1 as a Plugin controller now instead of the XTouch).

I’m concerned though if I setup the XTouch now in MC Mode (and an MCU control Surface in Logic surfaces window) with all the preset Zone it will create, that it will mess up all my Zones/Modes that I have just assignment to my Console 1. Will this be a problem and how can I avoid this from happening? As I gather that a controller asignment window can be a bit glitchy when using multiple Zones & controllers

So will my X-Touch Mini give me the same info as the MCU would in terms of looking at general knob and button behaviour?

 

I have no idea - sorry, I don't have the complete MIDI spec of every controller embedded into my brian. These are all things you'll need to investigate and problem solve, if you want to do this kind of customisation for your controllers.

 

I’m concerned though if I setup the XTouch now in MC Mode (and an MCU control Surface in Logic surfaces window) with all the preset Zone it will create, that it will mess up all my Zones/Modes that I have just assignment to my Console 1. Will this be a problem and how can I avoid this from happening? As I gather that a controller asignment window can be a bit glitchy when using multiple Zones & controllers

 

It certainly could be a problem yes, if you implement it badly, so you'll need to be careful, and keep things separate on different control surfaces, and don't go changing the existing assignments that make your other controllers work. And back up your CS prefs file a lot.

 

Basically, yes, the price of delving deep into this stuff is that if you don't know what you are doing, you can very easily break it. As I say, always keep backups of known good assignments, so you can revert if you mess things up.