Aux solo bug?

Is this normal?

I'm soloing Aux 1.

Aux 1 is a send inserted, but it's not active and yet, Aux 3 is still receiving the sound.

When I completely remove the send, then Aux 3 stops receiving the sound.

What is the purpose of having the Solo on an Aux, if then I have to hit Mute on all the other Auxs in order to just hear that Aux?

Is this a bug? Anyone else experience this? Am I missing something obvious here?

Not a bug, no. Inserting a send to Aux 3 automatically solo-safes Aux 3 so what you're hearing on Aux 3 are other sounds that are routed to Aux 3.

Not a bug, no. Inserting a send to Aux 3 automatically solo-safes Aux 3 so what you're hearing on Aux 3 are other sounds that are routed to Aux 3.

 

It doesn't make sense...

So for example if I have an aux (aux 1) that is sending to 10 other auxs and I only want to hear that main aux 1, then I have to go and mute all the other 10 auxs...

Basically the solo is not doing what's suppose to...

 

I mean, what's even the purpose of that? If I hit Solo on my reverb, I don't want to listen to all of the other effects. It would make sense if the send to the other aux was at least enabled. Being disabled, it doesn't make much sense to me...

 

Oh well. Thanks for clarifying though

It is doing what it's supposed to do — even if in your situation, that may not be what you want. Imagine you have a vocal sending to a bus and an Aux has its input set to that bus to process the vocal with reverb. When you solo the vocal, the reverb Aux is automatically solo-safed so that you can hear the vocal with its reverb.

David Nahmani said:

It is doing what it's supposed to do even in your situation that may not be what you want: imagine you have a vocal sending to a bus and an Aux has its input set to that bus to process the vocal with reverb. When you solo the vocal, the reverb Aux is automatically solo-safed so that you can hear the vocal with its reverb.

I’m confused haha can you send an image?

Here you go:

David Nahmani said:

Here you go...

From your description it sounded like something else haha so it's a normal setting. Got ya.

But look at my example. I'm soloing the aux, not the track. If I was soloing the track, it would make sense.

So in my case my instrument is being sent to Aux 1 (delay) and Aux 3 (reverb). When I solo Aux 1, because it has a send as well, even though it's not active, the sound is being sent to Aux 3, which doesn't make sense. Only when I completely delete the send to the aux 3 (in the aux 1), it stops sending.

I mean, it could make sense if I was soloing the instrument's channel itself. Do you know what I mean? Look at my example again, see if you can see what I'm trying to say.

Danny Wyatt said:

But look at my example

I did!

Danny Wyatt said:

I'm soloing the aux, not the track. If I was soloing the track, it would make sense.

The same thing makes sense whether it's an Aux or a Track.

If you have anything (Track or Aux) soloed that is sending to another Aux, that other Aux is solo-safed. So in your exmaple, when you have a send to "Lage" on the soloed channel strip, "Large" is solo-safed.

But look at my example

I did!

I'm soloing the aux, not the track. If I was soloing the track, it would make sense.

The same thing makes sense whether it's an Aux or a Track.

 

If you have anything (Track or Aux) soloed that is sending to another Aux, that other Aux is solo-safed. So in your exmaple, when you have a send to "Lage" on the soloed channel strip, "Large" is solo-safed.

 

I think you're not looking at the issue itself.

Scenario 1 (your image):

Track sending to aux 1. When you solo the aux, you only hear the effect. Ok. If you change the send's amount (on the track) it changes the amount you hear coming from aux 1. If you disable it, aux 1 doesn't receive any sound, right? So far so good. That's how it should work.

 

Scenario 2:

I have the track sending to Aux 1 and Aux 2. If I solo Aux 1, I only hear the effect in aux 1. If I solo aux 2, I only hear aux 2. Perfect. Notice that my track is already sending to aux 2 as well.

Now when I add a send to my Aux 1, sending to aux 2, regardless of it being disabled or not, it's sending to aux 2.

 

If my track is sending to both auxs, why adding a send to aux 2 (that's already present and active in my track), changes the behavior of aux 2?

 

Look:

 

 

The way it works now, if I have an instrument being sent to 5 effects and I only want to hear the delay in aux 1, I have to solo that aux, but also mute aux 2, aux 3, aux 4, aux 5. Or I have to solo aux 1 AND disable send 2, send 3, send 4 and send 5. It makes no sense. If I have a solo button on an aux, I want to just hear that aux. The same way that when you hear the aux and you hit solo, you don't hear the source. So it makes no sense that hitting solo in aux 1, is also playing the sound from aux 2.

There's no bug, everything you describe is the expected behavior. I feel like you're misunderstanding what I'm explaining. Did you see my earlier reply?

David Nahmani said:

Not a bug, no. Inserting a send to Aux 3 automatically solo-safes Aux 3 so what you're hearing on Aux 3 are other sounds that are routed to Aux 3.

Instantiating a send does not magically start sending signal when the send is off and the send knob is all the way down, it only solo-safes the Aux you're sending to, which is expected. Because you're sending OTHER sounds to that Aux, those are the sounds you hear coming from that Aux.

There's no bug, everything you describe is the expected behavior. I feel like you're misunderstanding what I'm explaining. Did you see my earlier reply?

 

Not a bug, no. Inserting a send to Aux 3 automatically solo-safes Aux 3 so what you're hearing on Aux 3 are other sounds that are routed to Aux 3.

 

Instantiating a send does not magically start sending signal when the send is off and the send knob is all the way down, it only solo-safes the Aux you're sending to, which is expected. Because you're sending OTHER sounds to that Aux, those are the sounds you hear coming from that Aux.

 

But if I'm soloing Aux 1, why am I also hearing what's going from the Source to Aux 2?

According to Apple's website here (https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24449?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US)

"A red slash across the Solo button indicates that the channel strip is solo-safe. The channel strip does not mute when you solo another channel strip. Control-click again to deactivate the channel strip’s solo-safe state."

 

This is not what you are describing. Basically the solo-safe mode would work if I had several Auxs that I didn't want to mute when I solo another one (in this case, what you are describing and what's happening, but my solo buttons have no red cross on them)

 

Look at how in this example, I'm not sending anything to Aux 1 and yet, just because I have an inactive send in Aux 1, the sound is going from the Source to Aux 2.

In this case, soloing Aux 1 or Aux 2, produce the exact same results, which to me, doesn't make sense. I'm soloing an Aux that's not receiving any sound at all and also that Aux has an inactive Send and the amount all the way down...

I don't see any useful purpose here, to be honest...

 

...The way it works now, if I have an instrument being sent to 5 effects and I only want to hear the delay in aux 1, I have to solo that aux, but also mute aux 2, aux 3, aux 4, aux 5. Or I have to solo aux 1 AND disable send 2, send 3, send 4 and send 5. It makes no sense....

Well no, not until you connect these fx auxes with sends from one to another ?

Danny Wyatt said:

So for example if I have an aux (aux 1) that is sending to 10 other auxs and I only want to hear that main aux 1, then I have to go and mute all the other 10 auxs...

Basically the solo is not doing what's suppose to...

No, it's doing what it's supposed to, it's just not doing what you *want*, in your complicated routing chain.

Features like this are designed to be convenient in the broad use cases, but they are not a one-click panacea, especially when you've set up complicated mix routings - it's up to you to manage what you want to hear. It is of course good to understand the behaviour of mixers and Logic's choices in regard to how they've implemented it.

des99 said:

Danny Wyatt said:

So for example if I have an aux (aux 1) that is sending to 10 other auxs and I only want to hear that main aux 1, then I have to go and mute all the other 10 auxs...

Basically the solo is not doing what's suppose to...

No, it's doing what it's supposed to, it's just not doing what you *want*, in your complicated routing chain.

Features like this are designed to be convenient in the broad use cases, but they are not a one-click panacea, especially when you've set up complicated mix routings - it's up to you to manage what you want to hear. It is of course good to understand the behaviour of mixers and Logic's choices in regard to how they've implemented it.

Complicated routing? Sending vocals to a delay and then sending a little bit of that delay to a reverb is complicated?

Sending 10 drums tracks to a group and then sending those to a room reverb, is complicated?

So far I’ve only read that “it’s what’s supposed to” or “that’s how it works”, but what’s the purpose of that? Any practical usage for that? So far I haven’t understood how this behavior could be useful at all. Actually it’s just confusing...

It's an automatic way to solo-safe signal flow channel strips even though you haven't solo-safed them manually (which would show the red slash through the button). The behavior is the same.

As for the purpose, that's what my vocal sending to reverb example was for: to show you the purpose of that behavior.

Danny Wyatt said:

Sending 10 drums tracks to a group and then sending those to a room reverb

See in that example, with Logic's behavior, if you solo the group, you're hearing them along with their room reverb. That's the reason for that behavior. Anytime you have a send setup to a destination, and solo that source, the destination is solo-safed.

Danny Wyatt said:

Complicated routing? Sending vocals to a delay and then sending a little bit of that delay to a reverb is complicated?

I wasn't digging deep into your routing, just responding to your configuration you reported that had one aux sending to 10 other auxes, which sounds a bit more than adding a little delay and reverb.

(I've never used more than four or maybe five sends on a given channel even in big mixes... 10 seems a lot, hence my comment...)

Like I say, though, I'm not able to look into detail into your specific cases, and you have David for that anyway, so it's all good...

Danny, I had this problem with a random audio track which has its solo button unexpectedly crossed out, which does not mute while you are listening to another aux.... It's a bug which I wrestled with thinking it was my routing. 

Try making a new audio track, copy across all the automation, regions and plugs. Assign its routing as before. If it is this bug then the solo will not be crossed out and will behave as normal.
 

2 hours ago, Gpo said:

Danny, I had this problem with a random audio track which has its solo button unexpectedly crossed out, which does not mute while you are listening to another aux.... It's a bug which I wrestled with thinking it was my routing. 

That's not a bug but a feature: a Solo button with a slash through it means the track is solo-safed (and will not be muted when you solo another track). You can toggle the solo-safe status of a track by Control-clicking the Solo button. 

It's a bug when you discover it on a random track unexpectedly, having not done anything to instigate it and which happens at a time when you are somewhere else in the mixer having solo'd an aux and can't figure out why you can hear another track not routed to the aux

2 hours ago, Gpo said:

It's a bug when you discover it on a random track unexpectedly, having not done anything to instigate it and which happens at a time when you are somewhere else in the mixer having solo'd an aux and can't figure out why you can hear another track not routed to the aux

I see what you mean now. I remember this issue occurring when working with Logic project files (or templates) that were started in earlier versions of Logic Pro. Two channel strips are solo-safed by default in Logic Pro: the "Click" channel strip and the "Preview" channel strip. In the MIDI Environment, the automatic Core Audio channel assignment of these two audio objects has changed behavior in between different Logic Pro versions, which can cause issues (such as, but not limited to unexpected solo-safee tracks) when opening a Logic project that was started in an earlier Logic version. 

Yes, I have also had problems regarding old unused automated lanes reappearing randomly on a track and then not for a few sessions and then back again, using old legacy projects 

This thread has helped me a lot, thank you! I've just spent half an hour confused about why the solo function on an aux track did not behave as I expected.

Am I missing something or is it a bit of a UX fail on Apple's part that Logic provides absolutely no indication to the user that aux tracks that are receiving sends are automatically solo-safe? Logic could just temporarily show the strike-through-S on all affected tracks whenever you solo a track and it would be clear what's happening 🤷‍♂️

That would certainly be a good idea I wonder if it is easily programmable by the Logic developers. Maybe lodge a feature request for it.

5 hours ago, alexe said:

Logic could just temporarily show the strike-through-S on all affected tracks whenever you solo a track and it would be clear what's happening 🤷‍♂️

I like the idea of providing some kind of visual feedback, but maybe something different and specific to that routing-induced solo-safing, so that we don't get tons of users wondering why their Auxes become automatically solo-safed when they didn't solo-safe them. 😄 

11 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

I like the idea of providing some kind of visual feedback, but maybe something different and specific to that routing-induced solo-safing, so that we don't get tons of users wondering why their Auxes become automatically solo-safed when they didn't solo-safe them. 😄 

Yeah probably better to have distinct visual indicators for routing-induced solo-safing and manually set solo-safing. I'm sure Apple's UX designers could come up with something reasonable if they tried 😄