Worth paying $200 to upgrade to 10.5?

Hey gang.

 

My MacPro is stuck on High Sierra unless I upgrade my video card. A new RX580 will cost me about $200, give or take. I’m using a standard def monitor, so I won’t really see any improvement on the graphics side until I update to a 4K monitor, other than seeing the eye candy that is Chromaverb and such.

 

10.4 is rock solid for me now, so there really isn’t a reason to update as far as being able to get my work done. What do you all who’ve moved from 10.4 to 10.5 think? Worth a $200 upgrade fee?

 

Cheers!

It's a free update.

 

I recommend you open your Applications folder, control-click Logic Pro X and choose "Duplicate". Rename the dupe "Logic Pro X 10.4" and run the free update. That way you'll have both apps.

I guess it’s not free if you have to buy a new video card to get Catalina/Mojave and thereby access to Logic 10.5.

 

I have just payed for the top tier iMac to get that access (but the old 2011 iMac desperately needed replacement).

 

I can’t say if it’s worth it. You’ll have to check out the list of new features to see what value it can bring you. I think the major stuff is for those that build their songs using loops. I’m not that sort of musician

It’s not really free for me, though, as it requires Mojave, which requires a Metal compatible card, which requires me to spend about $200.

 

(Maybe I should have posted this in the hardware section?)

Edited August 22, 2020 by KC

I guess it’s not free if you have to buy a new video card to get Catalina/Mojave and thereby access to Logic 10.5.

 

I have just payed for the top tier iMac to get that access (but the old 2011 iMac desperately needed replacement).

 

I can’t say if it’s worth it. You’ll have to check out the list of new features to see what value it can bring you. I think the major stuff is for those that build their songs using loops. I’m not that sort of musician

 

Thanks. I’m not really a loop guy either. But they might come in handy for some of the media work I do. mostly, I like to stay current and not get too far behind. But also thinking of performance and workflow improvements as well.

 

I know I have to decide for myself of course, but just curious if others feel they would gladly spend the $200.

I put an rx580 in my MP and upgraded to mojave, the machine benchmark 20-25% better then before across the board. I think you will like the upgrade. You don’t really need the 580 you can get the rx560 for $100 or maybe even less and will work perfectly fine the rx580 is overkill especially since you don’t even have a 4k monitor

I have done the same, with a 580 in a 2010 MacPro and I'm using four monitors since then. Nice.

I run two monitors now but one is 4k monitor in retina mode which is pretty much like 6k monitor in terms of resource usage. Will plan to add a third monitor in too. That’s why I got the 580 to make sure I can handle it. But I know other people using the 560 without issue even with multiple monitors ( but not 4k and only two monitors)

Really the 580 is only needed for extreme usage with gaming and high video rates and stuff like that

Thanks everyone,

 

This is helpful. Sounds like it is an overall improvement rather than a Logic specific upgrade.

 

I put an rx580 in my MP and upgraded to mojave, the machine benchmark 20-25% better then before across the board. I think you will like the upgrade.

 

This is good to know. I am thinking the 580 so I can grow with it and eventually get a 4K monitor. Seems like it’s going to be at least 2 years before replacing this MP, so I see it as an investment.

 

Cheers and thanks!

I still think you'll be fine with RX560. Sometimes I even wish I got that one because its also a little smaller inside the case. Google around on the mac related forums to find out what the RX560 can do versus RX580. Mainly the the RX580 just has more power for extreme GPU number crunching like in gaming and stuff... But anyway, for me I don't care about $100 vs $200 and you were asking specifically about the price value factor...so if you're worried about $200, get the RX560 it will probably be fine for you, including with a 4k monitor... or if you don't mind spending $200 then might as well get the best one why not. I think I got my RX580 on sale for like $129 if memory serves...can't remember for sure now.

 

There is also a newer model RX out now, but I do not know if it works in OSX or not.

You should also make sure to do some homework about it. The RX video card does not have a boot screen, which means when you boot up your MP, there will be a blank black screen for much of the time until finally the Apple logo will come up briefly just before showing the desktop. When you try to do some stuff you have to just hit the key commands during boot and wait patiently without visual feedback. The Mojave installer includes a firmware update for the MP5,1, and it is designed to be able to run to completion with an entirely black screen. You will be sitting there looking at your black screen and wondering if its actually happening. Just be patient. In the past, people had to keep their old original video card just in case they ever need a boot screen in order to install a firmware update or some other boot up option. Apple knew they were requiring Metal for Mojave so they made sure the Mojave installer could install without a boot screen. The High Sierra updater required a video card with a boot screen.

 

Anyway, since the MP5,1 is now officially discontinued, no promises about what Apple will do in the future. Some people will be running Catalina and other future OSX versions on the MP5,1 for as long as we can using DosDude patcher or whatever...and that is fine, but at some point you may or may not need your old video card around to temporarily throw back in to your MP5,1 in order to use the boot screen while upgrading the OSX or something. Not likely at this point, but never know. So I recommend you keep your old original video card in a box on a shelf in your closet just in case. The irony is that Mojave and future versions of OSX require Metal, so actually you may or may not be able to ever use the old video card again once you move to Mojave...so I'm not really sure it will be useful to keep the old card, but I don't think the resale value is very high anyway, so I am just keeping mine around just in case. Probably won't need it, but just an FYI.

 

And be patient with the black boot up screen, especially while upgrading to Mojave because the firmware update seems to take a bit of time and you can't see anything but black screen while its happening, so its a bit disconcerting, but trust me it will all work out fine.

There are flashed-for-Mac cards out there which do show a boot screen, like mine. Higher in cost, but surely beats keeping an old video card around without knowing if it actually works.

Thanks dewdman. That is most helpful. I’m aware of the boot screen issue. I was advised elsewhere to avoid used cards as they probably been used for mining, which is not good. So I’ve only looked at new 580s. Maybe I’ll look for a used 560.

 

Thanks again.

There are flashed-for-Mac cards out there which do show a boot screen, like mine. Higher in cost, but surely beats keeping an old video card around without knowing if it actually works.

 

Yeah, I’ve been looking at MacVidCards. They sell out quickly and seem to be about $100+ more. Wasn’t sure if it is worth the extra cost. But, it does probably solve the buying used quality issue. Hmmmm.

I am not aware of any flashed RX580 cards that you can buy. there are other nVidia models and yes more expensive. I chose the RX580 because Apple specifically documented it as officially supported in OSX for the PCI chasis, which means they will support it for the Trashcan mac also theoretically. There are a few cards they listed:

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/09/24/mojave-2010-2012-mac-pro-metal-graphics-cards/

 

As I said, the more I think about it, I may not even be able to use my old video card for its boot screen in the future because it doesn't have metal. With Mojave, a metal card is required, even just to install the OS. So in the future, most likely i will never be able to use the old card for any reason for its boot screen, but I think probably I will not ever need a boot screen, but you never know. Maybe someday I will need to do some kind of low level instal using my old card with boot screen to salvage something, even if I have to temporarily install an old version of the OS or something. Pure hypothetical situation and justification to just keep the card around just in case.

Here is the 580 flashed for Mac:

 

http://www.macvidcards.com/store/p116/Apple_EFI_AMD_RX580_4GB_and_8GB_Sapphire_Pulse_for_Mac_Pro_4%2C1%2F5%2C1.html

good to know! Expensive though. I don't think you need it flashed frankly. I have seen some instructions on some other forums for how to flash it yourself. I haven't tried and don't feel a need to experiment with that. In the the future the situation might change, but my point of view is that when I can't use my MP anymore I will finally get a new mac.

basically, also keep in mind that Apple will not be releasing any more firmware updates for the MP5,1. its dead hardware for them. Now...in the future if someone wants to keep running their MP5,1 for many years to come, they can either run Mojave forever, or resort to using DosDude patches...or actually what will happen is that MP5,1 users will become kind of like hackintosh users, they will have to hack their way into making it run Catalina, Big Sur and forward... And for that kind of activity, it might be useful at some point to have a boot screen. We shall see. But me personally, I don't plan to upgrade past Mojave anyway...though I might when LogicPro forces me to in order to get the latest update. Catalina can already run on it...but I don't want Catalina. I suspect BigSur will work fine too. After that Apple is going to get a lot more tight with system security so we shall see whether it can keep working past Big Sur...but anyway, I figure I will get 3 more years out of it and I'll be ready for a new computer by then anyway. I might have to put hte old vid card back in in order to turn it into a boot camp windows box or something though.

That’s kind of how I’m feeling. Once a new Apple Silicon iMac ships, I’ll most likely upgrade to that. So, getting another 2-3 years from my MP will be fine. Mojave would be fine for me as well, I’ve heard it’s very stable.

 

The only other thing I’ve read is to go with either Sapphire or MSI brands, as others have been unreliable and may have custom bias that is incompatible

Well I purchased exactly one of the ones that were explicitly documented in that Apple document. The Sapphire one. For the RX560 they list the MSI one.

Thanks. I’ve read the 480 and 580 are basically the same card. Looking at that now. Saves me about $100.

 

Thanks for the advice all!

It’s not really free for me, though, as it requires Mojave, which requires a Metal compatible card, which requires me to spend about $200.

Uh.. ok sorry I completely missed that point.

Well, I went with a used Rx480. Fingers crossed. Cost me $85. I guess it’s worth a try.

good luck and let us know how it goes!

Thanks. I’m a bit nervous about loosing the boot screen. Not that I’ve used it once in the last couple years. But I’ll keep the other card around. If this doesn’t work, I will probably go the more expensive MacVIDcard route.

It’s apparently quite easy to flash this card to a 580, I doubt I will bother. But that should bode well for Mojave compatibility

I don't think you will ever need the boot screen. I would not worry about it. Apple made sure the Mojave Firmware update would work without using a boot screen. They won't be releasing any more firmware updates in the future. You can still boot to recovery mode and all that stuff, you just have to kind of wait for the interface to come up instead of some early activity on the screen.

 

I think the only time you might need it is if you are trying to setup a dual boot to bootcamp or something like that, and maybe not even that I'm not sure, or perhaps in the future some hackintosh Frankenstein version of the MP5,1 may require the need for it, purely hypothetical as of now. Its way overkill to buy the flashed one. I'll cross that bridge if and when i get to it. Most people using Mojave on MP5,1 are not using flashed video cards, FWIW. you'll be fine.

Yeah, I think your right.

 

Also, I think I will leave both cards in for a bit and make sure this one is working. I can partition my drive, install Mojave on the one partition and save High Sierra on the other for a bit.

 

Sorry, this turned into a hardware discussion. Mods, feel free to move it if you think it wise.

you can still partition your drive and put mojave on one partition and high sierra on the other without needing a boot screen.