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lingtalfi
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recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:34 am

I know this has been answered a few times, but I'm still confused about the setup.

My goal is to record midi out of a reaktor sequencer.
Now there are different types of sequencer: Spiral, and the others.
With spiral, I found the setup, it's pretty easy:

- create a new "External midi" track
- in the MidiFX slot of the track, insert Reaktor (Audio Units > Native Instruments > Reaktor 6 MIDIFX)
- then with this track selected, press the record button in logic, it will write the midi data from spiral into the logic midi track

Now the problem I have is I want to record the output from the SQ16 sequencer. It's older than spiral and doesn't work the same way.
I just don't know how to do it, apart from (not tested) using the standalone version of reaktor, and pass via an IAC driver. I would prefer to avoid this setup if possible, because I find it not very practical.
 
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:51 am

I’m not at my computer but when I get there I will send you some ideas. It’s doable!
OSX 10.15 (Catalina) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.6.1, VePro7, Mainstage3
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:00 pm

I will answer on this thread since you started this thread as the OP. Its not clear to me at the moment whether you are wanting to use Reaktor to sequence instrument sounds, or if you are needing to actually record to midi tracks the output from Reaktor Sequencer. Those are two different tasks with two different ideal approaches. i will cover them both here.

Reaktor -> Single Instrument

This is easy. Put Reaktor.MFX into the midi plugin slot, put whatever instrument you want into the instrument slot of the same channel. Should work right away, presuming Reaktor is outputting its midi correctly. I tested this with Reaktor6 and it seems to work.

channel.jpg
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seq16.jpg
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Reaktor -> multiple instruments in subhoster

In order to route the output from Reaktor to multiple instruments, then the easiest way is to use a sub-hosting plugin that can host multiple instruments inside one plugin slot...such as PlogueBidule..but there are others...

bidulechannel.jpg
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circuit.jpg
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Reaktor -> multiple instruments, no subhoster

However, if you don't want to spring for the cost or have other reasons to send to separate instrument channels in LPX, then you have to use IAC and the environment, you can protect yourself against the midi loopback problem this way and hear the sequencer through LPX mixer...but in this mode you won't be able to record the generate midi to a midi track.

Set up your channel with External Instrument as the instrument plugin. Make sure to open the external instrument plugin window and configure which IAC port to use:

extchanl.jpg
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extplugin.jpg
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You must then go to the environment before you hit play and make sure to re-cable the IAC to a monitor object (for now). After that, hit play and the monitor object will display midi generated by Reaktor.

env.jpg
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Now you can route the output from the monitor object to whichever instrument channels you want to listen to IAC directly instead of listening to tracks.

envwire.jpg
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That's it, in that mode, Reaktor will by bypassing the sequencer and going straight to the instrument channel strips of your choice.

NOTE - Its important to point out that whenever you pass midi over IAC, you lose sample accuracy fo the midi. In my experience IAC is still accurate within one millisecond so its not really a problem unless you're anal like me. So IAC does impose this loss of exact timing accuracy for one thing and for the other thing you have to be careful to avoid midi loopback problems, by cabling the IAC port away from the sequencer. If you hit play before doing that, then there is a possibility that LPX can freeze up and you will have to force quit.

I'll touch on Recording the output from Reaktor in the next post.
OSX 10.15 (Catalina) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.6.1, VePro7, Mainstage3
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 96gb ram
 
lingtalfi
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:16 pm

Thanks for the detailed answer. I should have been clearer in my post, I'm actually interested in recording the midi data out of the SQ16 sequencer specifically (or SQ8, or SQ8x8, or SQP, or SQX actually), and record it in a midi track in logic pro (either the same track or another, I'm not sure, whatever works...).

I hope your next post will cover it, as I've not found this information elsewhere in a clear manner so far.
 
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm

Recording from Reaktor

MidiFX Freeze

As I said earlier, MidiFX Freeze has some problems related to CC's and other non-note events, and some other issues I can't remember the details now, but basically I can't recommend it anymore. Its worth a try though, you can find it here:

http://www.audiocr.com

It it works for you no problem, MidiFX free is sample accurate, meaning the events will be recorded EXACTLY where they were intended with no IAC midi jitter happening.

Recording over IAC

This is the next-easiest method, which is not that easy, and as I mentioned earlier, you will lose sample accuracy as well as open up the possibility of a midi feedback loop if you're not careful (I have a Scripter work around though). Read on.

Basically you will set it up similar as the multi-instrument approach above, using the external instrument to send to IAC.

The midi feedback loop can occur if you select the track header for that Reaktor track, then midi will be routed over IAC and back into Reaktor again. Depending on what Reaktor does with that, you could get a feedback loop. So, the easiest way around that is to reassign that track to NO OUTPUT, so that basically the reaktor channel will still be there in the mixer doing its job when you hit PLAY, but there will be no track header to accidentally select.

right click on the track header to do that:

reassign.jpg
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Once you do the above, then you can create a new track in LogicPro, arm it for record, and when you hit play that new midi track will be receiving the midi from the IAC port and you can record it.

As I mentioned above, this will not be sample accurate over IAC.
OSX 10.15 (Catalina) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.6.1, VePro7, Mainstage3
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lingtalfi
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:19 pm

To follow up on your first post, I was able to go to the "click and ports" layer of the environment, and pull a cable out of the IAC driver, and put a monitor at the end of it, but I never saw any data coming through the monitor.
I believe the SQ16 sequencer doesn't work exactly the same way. Not sure.
 
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des99
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:22 pm

lingtalfi wrote:
I believe the SQ16 sequencer doesn't work exactly the same way. Not sure.


It may be a problem with the SQ16 - if it's not outputting notes to an instrument on the channel strip, then it's also not outputting notes to the External Instrument (hence why you see nothing in the MIDI output). Worth trying with a different Reaktor sequencer, to see if one of those other ones *does* work..?
Last edited by des99 on Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:22 pm

Final method is the best method, but involves a bit to do it, using some special Scripter scripts that I wrote. You can read a lot more about it with instructions about how to do it here:

https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/MainstageM ... wikis/home

Without re-explaining it all here, you want to look in there for something called LogicGenCsv.js. That is the Scripter script to use. Basically you put an instance of Scripter onto the channel where you have Reaktor. When you hit play it will crank out some text to the logging area of Scripter, which you copy and paste into a text file on your computer. Then you use the freely available csvmidi command line utility to convert it to a real midi file, which you can drag back into LogicPro.

It works perfectly, has no risk of feedback loop and will generate sample accurate midi. This is a superior solution to MidiFX Freeze, but admittedly a little nerdy to use.

Let me know if you have any questions about it.
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OSX 10.15 (Catalina) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.6.1, VePro7, Mainstage3
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:24 pm

lingtalfi wrote:
To follow up on your first post, I was able to go to the "click and ports" layer of the environment, and pull a cable out of the IAC driver, and put a monitor at the end of it, but I never saw any data coming through the monitor.
I believe the SQ16 sequencer doesn't work exactly the same way. Not sure.


Did you make sure to open the external instrument plugin window and configure it to send to your IAC port of choice?
OSX 10.15 (Catalina) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.6.1, VePro7, Mainstage3
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 96gb ram
 
lingtalfi
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Yes, I've set the "external instrument's destination to the IAC Driver (I have only one IAC port open).
Here is a screenshot of my non-working setup:

Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 21.26.28.png
Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 21.26.28.png (2.33 MiB) Viewed 585 times


I tested the different sequencers (in the Reaktor Factory Library > Sequencers) with the setup in the screenshot, which involves the "External instrument / IAC" trick:

- SQ16: no (no data in the monitor at the attached to the IAC driver port of the Physical Input)
- SQ8: no
- SQ8x8: yes
- SQP: no
- SQX: no

For Spiral, it works fine without the "External instrument / IAC" trick, so it works with just the reaktor instance as a midi FX, and any instrument software in the instrument slot of the track, we can just press record and it records the midi.

I'm not sure if I want to dive into scripting to make this work, it seems too complicated compared to what I want to achieve.

But thanks for the suggestion.

I would just have hoped that Reaktor and logic played better together as far as midi routing.
Maybe in a few years?
 
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:48 pm

see the other thread you also posted on. SQ16 doesn't output midi.
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Dewdman42
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:54 pm

lingtalfi wrote:
For Spiral, it works fine without the "External instrument / IAC" trick, so it works with just the reaktor instance as a midi FX, and any instrument software in the instrument slot of the track, we can just press record and it records the midi.


When you hit record you are not recording the output from Spiral, you are recording whatever input you might be playing on your midi keyboard to feed into spiral. LogicPro does not record directly from plugins, period.

But clearly Spiral must output midi. The others you mentioned are designed to sequence reaktor sounds and do not output midi.

The problem is not really LogicPro's fault.
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Jordi Torres
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:26 pm

@lingtalfi

For next time, please don't post the same question on multiple threads (I know, too late now). Thanks

As I mentioned in the other thread, for these Reaktor sequencers to output MIDI (notes) directly to an instrument on your software instrument channel strip, not only do you need to load Reaktor as a MIDI FX plugin, the Reaktor ensemble must include a Note Pitch/Gate module:

Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 21.26.13.png
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https://www.native-instruments.com/file ... f#page=208

And here's the SQ16 with a manually-added Note Pitch/Gate module so that it outputs MIDI:

Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 23.35.18.png
Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 23.35.18.png (228.98 KiB) Viewed 531 times


To record that to a track, I suppose you know the answer to that by now.

J.
Et voilà!

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lingtalfi
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Re: recording midi from reaktor sequencer

Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:07 am

Awesome Jordi, thank you for getting to the bottom of this.
It just works fine now.