Logic Pro 10.6 is out

So as my relic cMP truly runs out of steam I will definitely be taking that into consideration as well as the manner in which Apple is handling this... which in my view will not be any better then the PPC->Intel transition...which for the record, sent me over to there PC platform also...for at least 5 years.

I think it will be much better, for the simple fact that they're moving back to architecture which inherently relies less on fixed hardware instruction sets, and more on well coded software. They've built the software and designed the chips - i mean, these are the absolute masters of their own operating systems and this has been brewing for years now.

 

Not to mention that virtualisation is so common-place, most businesses are running on hardware that's split into many virtual instances. This is 15 years years on from the PPC move, the knowledge, tools and CPU performance are ridiculously more advanced.

 

I think the bigger issue for Apple will be convincing people to migrate to native ARM apps, and that's where i imagine they make the App Store a requirement if you want to deploy to Mac users in the coming years.

 

If you're not feeling enthused for this new era, honestly, maybe it's time to jump off. I've been super critical of Apple to the point of running on Win 10 for the past 18 months as i was sick of their decisions. And yet here i am super excited with their direction again.

 

i.e. I can trade off losing the ability of upgrading my own machine when there's clearly quantifiable advantages to their integrated architecture.

Some Waves Abbey Road Plug Ins not working anymore on 10.6

Logic crashes when I try to open them.

Which ones as they all open for me...

...And that Chord editor is definitely buggy (whatever it does).

It's pure speculation, but my impression is that the Chord editor is a teaser of things to come.

 

In a Logic Pro 9 update in 2012, "Articulation ID" entries mysteriously appeared in the hypereditor and event list. The functionality was incomplete. Questions swirled: What is it? How does it work? Look how that turned out.

Thing is, my software can't even do things anymore that it used to do with sheer excellence for, well, 1.5 decades.

The software that used to do things with sheer excellence for 1.5 decades hasn't changed. You can continue to use it today. No one is forcing you to give it up.

 

It has changed massively with LPX.

The software that used to do things with sheer excellence for 1.5 decades hasn't changed. You can continue to use it today. No one is forcing you to give it up.

 

It has changed massively with LPX.

 

what has changed? am not getting it. what can't you do now that you could do before?

I understand that Apple wants to move on forcefully to new architecture. After all - forward thinking is what brought us to the platform in the first place and yes, there is a price to pay and it will not be Apple who pays. That's all clear and obvious.

 

The thing is - there is a clear pattern in the history of subreleases, and this might hold true for any software in general:

x.0 - a couple of big new features and even concepts, some of them excellent, some of them barely working, some bugs addressed, many bugs introduced

x.1 - quickly trying to understand and fix the most glaring newly introduced bugs, successfully in some cases, introducing even more bugs in others

x. 2-9 iterative refinement until a quite stable version is achieved and a new major release repeats the cycle all over again.

 

This time some find themselves stuck in the x.1 phase because they have invested time, money and effort to make their machine compliant in hopes not of new features but fixes of long standing bugs (and make no mistake, there's always a handful of these "finally"-fixes strategically tossed in to push exactly this crowd over the edge), only to find that other and maybe worse bugs have been introduced which will never be fixed for them because the payoff phase 2-9 never comes.

 

So the whole exercise turns out futile and I now have to decide what I hate more - the bugs in 4.8 or the new and improved ones in 5.1...

what has changed? am not getting it. what can't you do now that you could do before?

 

Zooming properly with the magnifying glass (CTL+ALT). It's completely broken.

Moving small files when not zoomed in *extremely* close is impossible. Almost completely broken.

Zooming just vertically or horizontally in piano roll with the magnifying glass is completely broken.

Returning to the previous zoom level when you switch automation on/off between zoom actions is broken.

Zoom levels/snapshots not saved per screenset anymore. Completely broken.

 

These are just the zoom related ones. When I showed these to a friend who switched to Cubase, he was laughing his a** off - simply because the built in CTL+ALT zoom was one of *the* most relevant features he is still missing from his Logic days. And it was one of *the* key features that made me switch from Cubase to Logic back in the days of Logic 3.

There's heaps more things where LPX acts as illogical as it gets, many of them related to region handling and/or editor linking.

All these were areas where Logic always ruled big time above any competitor. But they decided to completely mess it up ever since the day LPX was released.

these are not universal issues, but rather, issues you're having (i just tried zoom for the first time ever, & it worked fine). it's important to know the difference between a universal issue (that everyone, or most people, are experiencing), and one that you're experiencing. in which case, you're making statements that don't actually represent the larger logic/OS world, and maybe worth troubleshooting...

these are not universal issues, but rather, issues you're having (i just tried zoom for the first time ever, & it worked fine).

 

Of course these are universal issues. They may not affect you, but they are happening on each and every Mac running Logic. All too apparently you never used that functionality in previous versions.

I could 100% reproduce it on your machine, too. No need to troubleshoot anything.

And fwiw, I could shoot a video and you could shoot a video how it's different on your machine. Are you up to it?

also tried CTRL ALT zoom and seems to work fine here

also tried CTRL ALT zoom and seems to work fine here

 

It just works fine for you because you don't know how it worked in any version before LPX.

I could shoot a comparison video.

Sure - but you could you do this in it's own thread, as its not a 10.6 update issue. Thanks

Besides, Logic is the *only* professional sequencer not running under Mojave.

 

It is also the only professional DAW released with Big Sur support from day 1 and it is also the only professional DAW which supports Apple silicon from day 1. The MusicApps team at Apple also updated every single macOS app (Logic Pro, GarageBand, MainStage) and their iOS apps (GarageBand iOS, Logic Remote) – pretty much all on the same day. That is some significant work for such a small team. And they do not have the luxury to have their software not supporting the current version of macOS or current (= new) hardware. Other companies might decide to catch up at some point in the future, but if you buy a new computer from Apple today, you can rightfully expect as a customer that all Apple software works well on these machines.

 

This minimum macOS Version discussion repeats itself every year (because the oldest one is dropped by Logic Pro). Apple offers macOS for free and Catalinas system requirements go all the way back to Macintosh sold in 2012/2013, which is 7 to 8 years back. Any machine older and you can't even get it repaired anymore, because there are no more parts available. That means any machine bought in that timeframe can be updated to a system, which is supported by Logic Pro.

 

But there are probably 3 reasons why a few users do not want to update and they are all very valid. You might have even older hardware or software, which is no longer compatible with the last two versions of macOS. Or they simply do not want to change a stable system.

 

If you do not want to touch a stable system, then you should also not update Logic Pro. Updates are clearly not for you.

 

You have old hardware, that can't be updated to at least Catalina. You can continue to use these. But then do not expect Apple to support 7+ year old hardware in a software, which you probably bought 10 years ago for $199 and for which Apple provided free updates for all this time (and still does). Is there any other professional DAW which hasn't charged upgrade fees for a time frame that long?

 

If 3rd party software is blocking you from updating your macOS version, then you should contact the vendor of that software and not ask Apple to put effort in supporting this software, which even the vendor who sold it to you clearly no longer cares for. Otherwise they would have fixed these issues at some point. Or the hardware is so old, that there are no more driver updates. In my case the Apogee GiO has no 64-bit drivers, so it no longer works with Catalina. I had to to retire the GiO.

 

So, if you have one of these 3 good reasons, which block you from updating now. Fine. Do not update. Maybe you will update next year? Everybody can decide this for themselves how they want handle this and that is perfectly fine. Nobody forces you to change anything.

 

BTW: Paying for updates would not solve the backwards compatibility. First: the vast majority of customers do not want to pay for "bugfixes". But they are also not effected, because they use the latest version of macOS. And companies typically use additionally funds to invest into the future, not into past.

Look, and this is not an attack on Sascha it is, I believe, empirically correct.I Have been on forums with him over the years. He is unrelenting, and he is incredibly persistent. You will not dissuade him, discourage him, or even successfully appeal to him to stop. Every answer you give to him will get a response.

 

I suggest that you don't further.

Look, and this is not an attack on Sascha it is, I believe, empirically correct.I Have been on forums with him over the years. He is unrelenting, and he is incredibly persistent. You will not dissuade him, discourage him, or even successfully appeal to him to stop. Every answer you give to him will get a response.

 

I suggest that you don't further.

 

ah, got it. i mean, the zoom thing works here, works for others... so it's not a universal issue.

 

i guess some of us troubleshoot our specific issues, others simply complain...

ah, got it. i mean, the zoom thing works here, works for others... so it's not a universal issue.

 

It does NOT! Proveably, reproduceably. Other folks have reproduced the behaviour I was talking about right here in this forum. I have reproduced it on any machine running LPX.

As said, I can easily shoot a video.

He is unrelenting, and he is incredibly persistent.

 

And why would I not be? You could say the same about Apple.

It is also the only professional DAW released with Big Sur support from day 1 and it is also the only professional DAW which supports Apple silicon from day 1.

 

What is that good for when you can't even run any decent audio interface on a silicon Mac?

I just quickly tried the zoom thing, and it seemed to work exactly like I remembered it working - so it's clearly not "completely broken" anyway. I'm sure there's some behaviour or conditions where it doesn't act like it once did, that he can I'm sure demonstrate, but I think saying it's completely broken is, well, a bit of hyperbole.

 

Let's discuss that in a different thread anyway.

 

Anyway, Sascha has a long history online of being very vocal about things he dislikes with Logic, and many times these threads end up with people saying "If it's working so bad for you, why not move to something else?", but it seems the good stuff outweighs the bad stuff and he (always) sticks with Logic, and here we are again...

 

I have no problem with people discussing things that could be improved, but...

You could've been finding the hidden chord track instead of playing zoom buddies with one another! Very disappointed in each and every one of you - now get back to work!.

To end this issue in this very thread, here's a quick'n'dirty video. Excuse the quality, had to point the tablet to my secondary monitor (no proper holder for the tablet), also excuse my english. You will just see *how* wrong this is. If you would release a picture editor with a zoom function like this, you'd be bankrupt tomorrow.

And to those claiming it's working fine, please prove it by dragging a rectangle just the way I did (starting below the center of the upper region).

This is just one tiny aspect of all things broken zoom, I could shoot several videos.

 

Oh, you may as well just zoom in with CTL+ALT, switch screensets, switch back and try to zoom out with CTL+ALT. Tell me whether it's working (it won't, but hey, I'm surely wrong with my statements...). I could show you how it's working nicely with LP9 (which I have already opened on my Macbook).

i don't spend enough time zooming to know what's happening for you. if something's changed in how things work, you need to adapt. and if it works as you like in logic 9.... knock yourself out.

 

but i'd guess that 99% of logic users just... use the app, and make music. and find workarounds if need be, and change their workflow... where needed.

 

i started on logic 9, and have never looked back. and would not trade the newer capabilities, tools, functions, stability, and speed i have no to go backwards.

.

am leaving this thread, it's already worn itself out (yes, i'm part of that). but... there's music to make, and life to live..

 

EDIT: oops, one correction! i zoom constantly, using the option key and the surface of my magic mouse. constantly.

i don't spend enough time zooming to know what's happening for you.

 

It's not about what's happening to me. This is *broken*!

And quite obviously we should be allowed to complain about broken things.

But hey, at least you're not accusing me of lying anymore - progress!

i don't spend enough time zooming to know what's happening for you.

 

It's not about what's happening to me. This is *broken*!

And quite obviously we should be allowed to complain about broken things.

But hey, at least you're not accusing me of lying anymore - progress!

 

i have NEVER accused you of lying. but it's not 'broken' for everyone. so it's an issue you're having, and you should look into it. that, of course, is up to you.

(and now, as promised, will vanish)

- If the zoom rubberband is less than 1 track high, you see 1 track.

- If the zoom rubberband is less than 1 track high and it touches two tracks, you'll always see the lower track.

- The actual position of the zoom rubberband over both tracks is not accounted for.

- Only if the zoom rubberband height is closer to 2 tracks than to 1, you will see two tracks, so a zoom rubberband height of 1.6 tracks will show both tracks while a height of 1.4 tracks will show just the lower track.

 

That's the whole issue, and I too would guess one could get used to it in seven years.

This is the end for Apple for me.. Good bye Guys.. enough is enough.. apple is over for me from today on.

this guys... man... are ... anyway.. good luck with apple you all ¡

i have NEVER accused you of lying.

 

these are not universal issues, but rather, issues you're having (i just tried zoom for the first time ever, & it worked fine). it's important to know the difference between a universal issue (that everyone, or most people, are experiencing), and one that you're experiencing. in which case, you're making statements that don't actually represent the larger logic/OS world, and maybe worth troubleshooting...

 

Right, you're hiding your accusation a little more elegant. But in a nutshell, what you're saying there is telling me I'm lying (no universal issue but a personal one, when it clearly is a universal issue).

 

but it's not 'broken' for everyone.

 

Ok. You buy a magnifying glass. You focus on, say, some insect's body, but all that is visible through the lens is a tiny bit of one leg. Would you really tell people that this very magnifying glass would *not* be broken? Seriously? And that's *precisely* how Logics magnifying glass is working. But more power to you in case you prefer such lenses.

 

Fwiw, I'm really sorry this got so lengthy in this very thread. But as I was asked what was broken ever since the dawn of LPX, I had to answer. And as I was accused of telling nonsense, I had to prove I wasn't.

i have NEVER accused you of lying.

 

these are not universal issues, but rather, issues you're having (i just tried zoom for the first time ever, & it worked fine). it's important to know the difference between a universal issue (that everyone, or most people, are experiencing), and one that you're experiencing. in which case, you're making statements that don't actually represent the larger logic/OS world, and maybe worth troubleshooting...

 

Right, you're hiding your accusation a little more elegant. But in a nutshell, what you're saying there is telling me I'm lying (no universal issue but a personal one, when it clearly is a universal issue).

 

but it's not 'broken' for everyone.

 

Ok. You buy a magnifying glass. You focus on, say, some insect's body, but all that is visible through the lens is a tiny bit of one leg. Would you really tell people that this very magnifying glass would *not* be broken? Seriously? And that's *precisely* how Logics magnifying glass is working. But more power to you in case you prefer such lenses.

 

Fwiw, I'm really sorry this got so lengthy in this very thread. But as I was asked what was broken ever since the dawn of LPX, I had to answer. And as I was accused of telling nonsense, I had to prove I wasn't.

 

find ANY post, anywhere on this forum, where i accuse ANYONE of 'lying'. also, read fuzzfilth's explanation above, that should clear things up for you. also... chill. am saying you're mistaken, not that you're deliberately making something up. that's hugely different.

That's the whole issue, and I too would guess one could get used to it in seven years.

 

Well, I was thinking that as well. But up to this day I find myself accidentally zooming in wrong portions. I'll give you an example: Zoom *way* in horizontally already. So that two regions on adjacent tracks are already covering a lot of space. Now you just want to zoom a little wider. For that to happen you have to cover a very wide range with your mouse whereas it only required a very tiny movement in previous versions.

But apart from that, there's still all the other issues mentioned (zoom memory lost, only bi-directional zoom in piano roll, etc.).

 

I will stop for now, seems as if people don't zoom much using this method - it simply got second nature to me in around 1.5 decades when it was working just great. And seeing it being broken is worse than the PDC issue for me (which people are complaining about all the time).