A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
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des99
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:17 am

Wait - so it's confirmed that Logic, running natively on Apple Silicon, will still load *Intel* plugins in rosetta2?

That seems... unlikely to me. It's not like they are apps, which can be converted when run - this is Intel native code being loaded into the Logic application...

Source for someone who has done this and confirms it works?

Or are you talking about running *Logic*, and all plugins, emulated in Rosetta2?
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joshj
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:29 am

Ploki wrote:
FabFilter will work via rosetta 2 on Logic, and native version is in the works:
https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/6375/ma ... patibility
iZotope
https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/ar ... 11-Big-Sur

what i use from iZotope works on Big Sur - i imagine that they should work via Rosetta2.

Melodyne4 works in Big Sur here normally, 5 i supposed should as well, haven't found anything about Celemony re: M1.

As far as Waves go, that's probably going to be problematic. They're not the fastest to react and they tend to charge for compatibility updates - best bet for now is hope they work via rosetta. I also don't have any partially because of the aforementioned reasons :D



Thanks a lot. So just I’ve got this right, in terms of upgrading to a new M1 machine now, the consensus would that rosetta / unoptimised plugs will work around 30% slower than they would natively but that performance in the meantime would be made up by the increased performance of the M1 chip itself. So no real performance drop from a comparable Intel machine. And one would be investing in a future proof machine who’s performance will see a 30% or so increase as and when plugin developers release updates?
I’m thinking of selling my i7 Mac mini before the price drops too much and therefore transitioning to M1.
Logic Pro 10.5 | OSX 10.14
MacMini 2018 3.2GHz 6 Core i7, 30GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
 
joshj
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:37 am

Also found this if it’s of use to anyone;

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/big-su ... w_1_page=1
Logic Pro 10.5 | OSX 10.14
MacMini 2018 3.2GHz 6 Core i7, 30GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
 
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Ploki
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:25 am

joshj wrote:
And one would be investing in a future proof machine who’s performance will see a 30% or so increase as and when plugin developers release updates?
I’m thinking of selling my i7 Mac mini before the price drops too much and therefore transitioning to M1.

that's pretty much it.
and i'm thinking about the same thing - but lack of thunderbolt ports worries me and also, i currently run 32gb of RAM.
<desktop pending> | 13" M1 Pro | Big Sur 11.1 | Logic 10.6.1
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roundabout
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:18 am

des99 wrote:
Wait - so it's confirmed that Logic, running natively on Apple Silicon, will still load *Intel* plugins in rosetta2?

Yes. Although, there are some exceptions that don't work.

That seems... unlikely to me. It's not like they are apps, which can be converted when run - this is Intel native code being loaded into the Logic application...

The trick is that it's not being loaded into the Logic process.
 
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des99
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:19 am

Interesting - thanks...
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TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:18 am

joshj wrote:
Ploki wrote:

really doesn't matter how big/small dev is, but how old their framework is and how reliant are they to x86 instruction set.
U-he said it's far less problematic than they anticipated, Audiothing said it's not problematic since they're on Juce/Xcode and just need to recompile for ARM, Tone2 said it's a bit problematic but one of their synths is already ARM ready (Warlock), Reaper is already beta for ARM.

So it really depends on what you depend on for programming your stuff :)



I’m more reliant on my mix chain than synths at the moment. FabFilter, Waves, iZotope and Melodyne. Don’t suppose you known anything about how prepared those developers are?


I've seen videos of people using the first three fine under Rosetta. I have a M1 mac mini arriving today so I'm gonna be testing those first three aswell
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
OS X 10.14.6
 
TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:23 am

Dewdman42 wrote:
TheRdungeon wrote:
I would guess that only the main Logic app itself is optimised for apple silicon, and maybe a few plugins. Alchemy is essentially a third party plugin they purchased and put in Logic, so it could still be running in Rosetta mode at this point


The built in plugins are not actually plugins they are built in to the main executable. So if logicpro is running the Arm binary then so are they.

Differences in performance are more likely related to either specific intel optimizations such as AVX which are not in ARM, or perhaps related to other ssd streaming bottlenecks.


That is interesting, I suppose that's why the 'Apple AU' Audio Units that show up around Mac OS are seperate things both in the plugin menu (under audio units) and the fact that they appear at all outside Logic in the system compared to the other Logic plugs
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
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des99
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:52 am

Yes, those actually are plugins and come as part of MacOS.
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Ashermusic
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:26 am

TheRdungeon wrote:
joshj wrote:


I’m more reliant on my mix chain than synths at the moment. FabFilter, Waves, iZotope and Melodyne. Don’t suppose you known anything about how prepared those developers are?


I've seen videos of people using the first three fine under Rosetta. I have a M1 mac mini arriving today so I'm gonna be testing those first three aswell


Do you own any RAM hungry orchestral libraries? If so, please, please load them up and let us know how this machine with its limited RAM deals with them.
Mac mini 3.2 Six Core i7 w/ OSX 10.14

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TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:49 pm

Ashermusic wrote:
Do you own any RAM hungry orchestral libraries? If so, please, please load them up and let us know how this machine with its limited RAM deals with them.


Not really to be honest, I could download a Demo of something to check. Most of my stuff is synth based. Been delayed by a day. Getting a 8GB 512GB so should be easy to find it's RAM limitations
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
OS X 10.14.6
 
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Kjazz
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:17 pm

following thread
Mac Mini Server 2011 Quad-Core 2.0
8 gigs RAM
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Ninecows
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:09 am

This is crazy:



He’s using loops to populate the many tracks. Don’t know if this should utilize ram or put pressure on the ssd. He’s just using the base model. Seems like it can just run anything that you can reasonably ask it to do, despite the 8 GB RAM.

Now I need to keep remind my self of why I just bought a i7 27” iMac with extra bells and whistles: Backwards compatibility from day 1 and support for boot camp.

Could have got the Mac Mini M1 and a very decent screen for half that price :-(
 
Ninecows
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:12 am

Very likely that the ever increasing speed of and integration of SSD will reduce the need for RAM...?
 
TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:20 am

Ninecows wrote:
This is crazy:
https://youtu.be/KIAUiFoYPtQ

He’s using loops to populate the many tracks. Don’t know if this should utilize ram or put pressure on the ssd. He’s just using the base model. Seems like it can just run anything that you can reasonably ask it to do, despite the 8 GB RAM.

Now I need to keep remind my self of why I just bought a i7 27” iMac with extra bells and whistles: Backwards compatibility from day 1 and support for boot camp.

Could have got the Mac Mini M1 and a very decent screen for half that price :-(


Using my Mac Mini M1 for the past day or so, it's a great machine but honestly it's a bit of an ass around getting some stuff inline, especially when it comes to some obscure programs. if you only use Logic plugs and really well known plugins it's pretty good. But for audio work in general, especially if you do it professionally, I'd be content with what you have! Some things are requiring some odd workarounds. And if you need Boot Camp it's an absolute no brainer to stick with your machine for now
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
OS X 10.14.6
 
Ninecows
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:30 am

TheRdungeon wrote:
Using my Mac Mini M1 for the past day or so, it's a great machine but honestly it's a bit of an ass around getting some stuff inline, especially when it comes to some obscure programs. if you only use Logic plugs and really well known plugins it's pretty good. But for audio work in general, especially if you do it professionally, I'd be content with what you have! Some things are requiring some odd workarounds. And if you need Boot Camp it's an absolute no brainer to stick with your machine for now


Thanks... at present I’m like 90% of the time in MacOS. But price/performance within native Logic stuff seems so much in favor of the Mac mini M1 that I could probably live without windows. Anyway - the iMac a keeper for now and will support me for years. Don’t look back after you buy ;-)
 
TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:31 am

My M1 Mini does 95 in the new logic benchmark, this is while running as a headless machine which seems to be using a bit of CPU according to activity monitor
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
OS X 10.14.6
 
TheRdungeon
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Re: MacMini M1 Logic Benchmark results (strange)

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:33 am

Ninecows wrote:
Thanks... at present I’m like 90% of the time in MacOS. But price/performance within native Logic stuff seems so much in favor of the Mac mini M1 that I could probably live without windows. Anyway - the iMac a keeper for now and will support me for years. Don’t look back after you buy ;-)


For sure!
2.3GHz Quad MBP - Mid '12 15"
Apogee Duet 2
Logic 10.4.7
OS X 10.14.6