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Is this the right way to set up Zone/Modes in Controller Assignments?


simoncroft
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Having done as much reading as I can, my understanding is that the hierarchy within the Controller Assignments is Zone/Mode(s)/ individual parameters.

 

I'm trying to set things up so I have a Zone called plug-ins, then individual Modes called 'Linear Phase EQ, Channel EQ etc. Is that how it should be structured, or am I missing the point?

 

I'd be grateful for advice, because I don't want to put hours into this, only to discover I've gone about it the wrong way!

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A Zone is basically a grouping of controls (say, all your 8 knobs, and maybe all your 8 faders in a different zone).

 

A Mode is a mode you're in so you can make those controls in each zone perform different things depending on what Mode you're in - so if you're in your self-defined "LinEQ' mode, those knobs are mapped to control your EQ, but if you then select your "ChanEQ" mode, those same controls instead control the other EQ plugins.

 

Then you'd have a button or buttons to change modes, so you can decide what those controls do as you're using them.

 

These things are tools to best use how you need to, but I wouldn't have a zone called plug-ins, as that's not really the intention. A zone is really a physical grouping of controls - you (hypothetically) only have one set of 8 knobs, and it's those knobs you want to do different things - so, one zone for those knobs, then individual modes for each different purpose you want to use those knobs for.)

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Thank you very much for the response. There are some very fundamental things I've obviously failed to grasp.

 

1) Although I understand how to create a new Zone, I don't know how to 'tell' Controller Assignments which controls are in that Zone.

 

2) Perhaps naively, I assumed that if I created a B3 Mode when the B3 plug-in was open and a Channel EQ Mode when the EQ plug-in was open, the Mode would automatically switch any time I opened either of those plug-ins. In knew the answer couldn't be to select them from the Controller Assignment window, but I can't find another way, as yet.

 

From what you're saying, I need to assign the modes themselves to physical controls. How do I do that, please?

 

I really wish the official documentation discussed real-life examples, so didn't have to keep asking other people, and diving into YT videos that invariably show how to set one plug-in and not the whole system!

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There are some very fundamental things I've obviously failed to grasp.

 

:) It's not that intuitive, and the docs kinda of assume you already know the layout - it did take me a while to understand it, back in the LP 7.x days...

 

1) Although I understand how to create a new Zone, I don't know how to 'tell' Controller Assignments which controls are in that Zone.

 

You don't really - it's more an organisational thing. Create a zone, call it "Knobs". Create a Mode *in* that Zone for your first set of assignments, and put your assignments in that mode. Then create a second mode, and put your second set of assignments for those knobs in there, etc.

 

2) Perhaps naively, I assumed that if I created a B3 Mode when the B3 plug-in was open and a Channel EQ Mode when the EQ plug-in was open, the Mode would automatically switch any time I opened either of those plug-ins.

 

Nope.

 

In knew the answer couldn't be to select them from the Controller Assignment window, but I can't find another way, as yet.

 

*You* tell Logic what more you want to be in by triggering a mode-switch assignment, which makes that mode active. There is no way for Logic to change modes on it's own, this is all down to the controller assignments (and the control surface module, which is a developer-only thing)

 

From what you're saying, I need to assign the modes themselves to physical controls. How do I do that, please?

 

Select a mode. Learn an assignment - if should be placed in/learnt to that mode. if it isn't, then just move it there in the controller assignment window.

 

I really wish the official documentation discussed real-life examples, so didn't have to keep asking other people, and diving into YT videos that invariably show how to set one plug-in and not the whole system!

 

Me too. But, few get deep into this kind of hacking, so a bit like programmer, you basically have to problem solve things youself while you figure out how it's implemented and what you can do (which isn't exactly obvious).

 

But you can of course ask here - I was generally too deep into this stuff to have anybody to ask, so I just had to figure it out myself... ;)

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Actually, it's good to know I'm not just being stupid. It's potentially so powerful, but I get the feeling nothing much has happened to the way it works – or the documentation – since the Emagic days.

 

It hasn't changed much, because it was designed for the MCU, and generic control, and those things still work as they always did. The MCU is pretty much a reference implementation of all that is possible, and it's really cool.

 

Of course, Logic *has* added other control things, like the auto-mapping stuff for the smart controls.

 

I've documented here how I'm using the controller assignments for my own uses*, what I was trying to achieve, and how I achieved it, and I have the best control scheme I've ever had for Logic - but everyone has different needs, and sometimes you just need to figure out what *you* want and how to go about doing it (or whether it's possible at all).

 

* And I have something in development to simplify this setup for other people to use, but it won't be available for a while yet

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I have nothing to add other than to express my compassion. I have several times, over the years, tried to understand and put into action the few sparse and cryptic paragraphs in the manual. I can confidently say that I have mastered the Environment, but this is from another planet.

 

It's actually not that hard, once you get the concepts. It helps to look at the MCU assignments and how it works.

 

The only hard stuff is the extra secret magic that happens inside the control surface module, which is not something you can get at. I'd love to get access to develop my own, but I don't even know how to contact at Apple about that, or whether my intended uses are worthy enough to even get to the NDA stage, alas... I'd *love* to be able to create something to easily add a preset bunch of assignments into Logic, like the MCU control surface module does...

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Actually, it's good to know I'm not just being stupid. It's potentially so powerful, but I get the feeling nothing much has happened to the way it works – or the documentation – since the Emagic days.

 

It hasn't changed much, because it was designed for the MCU, and generic control, and those things still work as they always did. The MCU is pretty much a reference implementation of all that is possible, and it's really cool.

 

Of course, Logic *has* added other control things, like the auto-mapping stuff for the smart controls.

 

I've documented here how I'm using the controller assignments for my own uses*, what I was trying to achieve, and how I achieved it, and I have the best control scheme I've ever had for Logic - but everyone has different needs, and sometimes you just need to figure out what *you* want and how to go about doing it (or whether it's possible at all).

 

* And I have something in development to simplify this setup for other people to use, but it won't be available for a while yet

 

Thank you so much for your input. I'm not a programmer, and my use of MIDI is quite shallow, even though it goes back more than 30 years. I think what I need to do is take on board every point you've made and try to apply it.

 

I should probably also review the MIDI protocol. This tutorial might be a good start: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/cmsip/readings/MIDI%20tutorial%20for%20programmers.html

 

When to use MIDI and when to use Logic's auto-mapping is a mystery to me. I'm guessing it's partly a judgement call, but most of all... it's down to me to ride that learning curve.

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OK, I was doing great setting up my little Korg controller to address Logic's Channel EQ. But now I've hit a brick wall. Having used the Korg Select buttons to switch each band in/out, I've got the faders adjusting the frequency of each band. My plan was to then use modifier keys on the QWERTY keyboard in conjunction with the same faders to address cut/boost and Q parameters. But despite following the Logic manual exactly, Controller Assignment does to seem to recognise the modifier key and puts up the dialogue that says this control is already assigned. Obviously enough, if I choose Keep Both, all I've got is a fader that adjusts two parameters simultaneously, which is useless. Do you know where I'm going wrong please?
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Do you mean you want Logic to receive a learnt MIDI command whilst holding down a modifier key on your qwerty keyboard? That's not something you can do, if so - those things are independent.

 

What you can do is define a MIDI modifier momentary button on your MIDI device, so that when you hold it, you mode switch into a new mode with different assignments active, and when you release it, you revert to the previous mode. The MCU controllers use this scheme a lot (as do I, in my custom controller handling scheme).

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Thanks for the reply, Des. What I was trying to do is described on p1148 of the current LPX User Guide. It says:

 

Assign a controller using a modifier key

1. Choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Learn Assignment for [parameter name] (or press Command-L) to open the Controller Assignments window.

2. Hold down the modifier key you want to use (Command, for example) as you select the parameter you want to assign, while moving the control.

3. Click the Learn Mode button to complete the Learn process.

If Logic Pro receives a MIDI message from the device while you are holding down the modifier key, the Learn Mode button is deactivated when you release the key, and the Learn process is complete. If you release the modifier key before Logic Pro receives a MIDI message, the Learn Mode button remains active, so you can still move a controller to send a MIDI message. In this situation, be sure to click the Learn Mode button when you are finished to end the Learn process.

 

If you can tell me how to do what you've just described, that would make my day. I've put hours into this, and I just don't have enough physical controls, unless I can address at least two parameters independently from a single fader or rotary. Very frustrating to get this far and stall! :oops:

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Ok cool - I haven't used that, I'll have a look into it. I can't see any field for modifier key in the controller assignments, so I'm unsure as to what they mean here.

 

The MCU's do have modifier keys (command, shift etc) but this is a different thing to the system qwerty keyboard, so I'll have a look to see if that is indeed what they are talking about...

 

Edit: I tried, and (at least in 10.5.1, the current behaviour matches my understanding that I wrote above.

 

As mentioned, there is no field for a qwerty keyboard modifier control, and when learning a MIDI message, holding any key on the qwerty keyboard has no affect and is unrelated to learning MIDI messages.

 

So while the documentation is confusing, I think they do indeed mean a modifier key *on the control surface*, not on the qwerty keyboard, as pressing one of those control surface modifier keys *changes modes* so your learned assignment is placed in the correct mode for that modifier.

 

(Unless I'm missing something obvious, of course.)

 

You need to constrain your mode switching to buttons that generate MIDI messages to switch modes, so if you were expecting to use the qwerty keyboard, as I said, that's not something you can do. You'll need to rejig your ideas of how to map out your custom control surface. Remember that if you're running out of MIDI controls on that one control surface to use as your *modifier* keys, you can always press some other MIDI controller into service, like a little Korg nanopad or something, and use that to switch modes.

 

Coming up with the best way to map out your controller scheme is all part of the process of developing something custom to you. If you go with something like the MCU (or similar devices) - all this work has been done for you (albeit not necessarily to your taste) - and it is a significant amount of work. If you want something bespoke, it's al part of the design process to look at your options and figure out the best way to design everything - and this sometimes means you will end up in blind alleys and need to come up with something different.

 

If you *do* find a way to make qwerty modifiers work as a qualifier for incoming MIDI messages, do let me know, but I think this is not something Logic supports, even though the documentation is confusing in this regard.

 

Hope that helps...

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Very helpful, Des, and thank you for your time. As I can't any evidence the Controller Assignments can 'see' the QWERTY keyboard, and I've failed to get it to work using MIDI control, I thought I'd ask Apple directly.

 

Apparently, Tech Support would phone me back in 2 minutes, which would be great, but the online form refused to accept my phone number as valid... In the end, I posted my question on Apple Communities. I let you know if I ever find a solution.

 

I know I could assign some of the parameters to a different controller, but it would be so elegant to have each band controlled by one fader and two modifiers.

 

Alas, I can't really justify the cost of a Mackie MCU for what is essentially an ergonomic convenience.

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Like I say, you *can* do this perfectly well (use the same controls for different parameters based on whether you press or hold another button) - you'll just need to use a MIDI controller button for the modifier, not your qwerty keyboard. I'm not if sure you understand that, but it seems not from what you say (I may not be understanding you correctly).

 

If you're running out of buttons for whatever control scheme you want to implement though, something has to give - you'll either need to forgo some complexity, implement it differently, or get another controller with more controls to use that will better support your intended use case.

 

Honestly - I'm one of the people who's probably got the most experience with Logic's controller assignments so you're dealing with the right person - I left the Apple Communities discussion board a long time ago, as did many of the "heavyweights", to come here. I doubt you'll find anyone doing deeper controller assignment hacking than me, but you're of course welcome to try...! :)

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Des, You've been a massive help so far, and I realise that you have considerable knowledge that you have been very kindly sharing with me.

 

The reason I tried to contact Apple Tech Support is that I used to be a technology journalist, so my instinct was to ask what their documentation actually meant, and how LPX worked when it comes to assigning a modifier key. After all, it's Apple we've all paid for LPX, so they should be able to support it. Sadly that didn't work out.

 

I don't hold out much hope when it comes to Apple Communities either. It just seemed like the only interaction with Apple I was going to have.

 

I now have the LPX Channel EQ and the Waves version of SSL's standalone EQ mapped to controls, which is a big step forward that I could not have made without your help.

 

The two big mysteries for me now are: how I actually assign two functions to one fader on a control surface, so they can be toggled; and how I assign the various Modes I'm creating to a physical controller. Conceputually, I totally get it. What I don't know how to do is make it happen.

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The two big mysteries for me now are: how I actually assign two functions to one fader on a control surface, so they can be toggled; and how I assign the various Modes I'm creating to a physical controller. Conceputually, I totally get it. What I don't know how to do is make it happen.

 

Ok, let's walkthrough through a simple practical example.

 

Make sure this won't interfere with what you've done so far - you might want to back up your CS prefs file, then remove everything from the controller assignments window and start from scratch (you can always reinstall your previous CS prefs file to restore the earlier stuff).

 

Here, we're going to use one knob, and one button on your MIDI controller for this.

 

We're going to make the knob control the volume of the selected track, but when we press the button, the knob will now change the pan on the selected track. Each time we press the button we want to toggle between vol/pan. This will demonstrate how one control can do different things, and how to change modes to accomplish this.

 

Open the controller assignments window, and create a Zone, called "Test".

 

Select the Test zone, and create two Modes within it, we'll call them "FunctionA" and "FunctionB" to keep things generic. The plan is when mode "FunctionA" is active (there will be a little dot to the left of it when it's active), our knob will be controlling volume, and when "FunctionB" is active, our knob will be controlling pan.

 

Select the "FunctionA" Mode. (Selecting this in the controller assignments window makes this mode active).

Now enter Learn mode, use the mouse to change the volume knob on the selected track, and then move your knob to assign this. Exit Learn mode.

 

Now, because we had the "FunctionA" Mode active, the learned assignment should have been placed in this Mode. If it didn't get placed there, that's ok, just move the assignment in "FunctionA" by dragging the assignment there with the mouse. That's our "volume" assignment done.

 

Ok, let's do the same for pan - select select Mode "FunctionB" in the controller assignments window. Enter Learn mode, use the mouse to change the pan knob on the selected track, and then move your knob to assign this. Exit Learn mode. Make sure this second assignment is placed in the "FunctionB" Mode, and if it isn't, drag it there as before.

 

Now, when you select FunctionA in the window, you should see one assignment for volume, and in the FunctionB Mode, there should be one assignment for pan.

 

Let's do a check at this stage - select FunctionA Mode (which puts Logic in this Mode) - and move your knob - it should be changing the selected track's volume.

Now select FunctionB, and move the knob. It should be changing the track's pan.

 

Ok, now let's make the button change the behaviour of the knob. Your controller's button will either have a "momentary" behaviour, or a "toggle" behaviour (usually, changing button behaviour's is something you can edit when you edit the controller's map of MIDI commands each control sends). So the exact values to learn will vary depending on what MIDI messages the button sends. In principle though, when the knob is a volume control, we're in FunctionA mode, and we want to change to FunctionB mode, and when the knob is a pan control we're in FunctionB mode, so the button needs to change to FunctionA mode. This way, the button toggles between FunctionA and FunctionB modes, which changes the behaviour of our knob, as only the active assignments in the current mode are responded to.

 

So, select FunctionA mode, hit Learn, and press the button we're going to use as a Mode change, and exit Learn mode. Select this assignment, which should be in FunctionA next to the volume assignment, and change it's Class to "Mode Change", and select the Mode "Test:FunctionB" in the Mode menu below it. This means that this assignment, that is triggered when we press the button in FunctionA mode, will change the Mode to FunctionB.

 

Let's do the inverse, so select FunctionB, Learn, press the button, exit Learn mode, and similarly, change the Class of this assignment (which should be in the FunctionB Mode) to Mode Change, and select "Test:FunctionA" in the Mode menu.

 

Now, what should happen is as you press the button, you will see the two Modes being changing in the Controller Assignments window - ie that button should now toggle Modes. When FunctionA Mode is active, the assignments there will respond and the knob will behave as a volume control. Press the button, we'll select FunctionB mode, and now the knob will act as a pan button.

 

Set that up, and verify you understand what's going on, and from that point, you should have a good grasp of how to set things up as needed.

 

As an exercise, have a think about how to make this work so that normally the knob is a volume control, but becomes a pan control only while you are *holding* the button down (ie in this case, the button will be acting as a modifier key, a bit like how the shift key works on a qwerty keyboard).

 

Hint: Buttons typically send two values/MIDI messages - an "ON" state (usually a CC value of 127) and an "OFF" state (CC value of 0).

 

Extra hint: Unlike our above example, the button itself doesn't need to do things differently depending on which Mode we're in, so the button assignments can be placed in "No Mode", which is a modeless state and assignments in here will always be active, regardless of what the current Mode is.

 

Have a play with that, it should be straightforward enough to follow and clarify the concepts at work.

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You post is a rare and generous gift, for which I am extremely grateful. I fully understand your very clear instructions, and I can already grasp how I can apply it to the set-up I'm hoping to achieve.

 

Things didn't work out exactly as described on my first attempt, but I think I know where I sent wrong. By the looks of it, I removed the incorrect Preference file, meaning all the default assignments for the nanoKontrol were reinstated when I remounted Logic. As a result, there are all sorts of unintended assignments happening.

 

None the less, you have given me the building blocks, so it's up to me to build the structure. I shall keep trying until mine Test operates as you describe.

 

Just one thing: I cannot for the life of me drag and drop assignments as you describe. "If it didn't get placed there, that's ok, just move the assignment in "FunctionA" by dragging the assignment there with the mouse. " Nope. All it does for me is highlight the name of the assignment.

 

I'll get there eventually!

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Sorry - you might need to cut/paste it (command-X, command-V) to move assignments between modes - I was doing this from memory - apologies...

 

Control surface prefs file is: /Library/Users/*you*/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs

 

If you are using the nanoKontrol as a control surface, it's bundle will be installed, so it will be recognised and re-added by Logic on launch. Easy way to temporarily prevent this is to disconnect it, or move the bundle from (always forget this one) /Library/Application Support/MIDI Device Plug-ins/

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Great! You should be a bit clearer on how zones and modes work, how you change modes, and how assignments are "active" depending on the mode you're in.

 

There's more to discover, of course, but that's the basics of how these things work, and how the "modifier" and mode switch functionality is implemented in things like the MCU, where the same knobs/buttons/faders etc do different things according to the active mode for those zones etc.

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des99 – and anyone else interested in this thread – I just wanted to give you an update on my progress so far.

 

I've successfully created controller assignments for LPX Channel EQ and the Waves SSL G-Series EQ. Using des99's example exercise, earlier in the thread, I can now switch between the Modes SSL EQ G and EQ SSL G alt (and a similar arrangement for the Channel EQ). The means the faders on my nanoKontrol can either be assigned to the frequency sweeps or Qs (contour curves).

 

Tonight's big breakthrough has been adding (No Mode) Mode Change assignments, so that I can switch between the two EQ assignments, using two buttons on the controller.

 

The 'big plan' is to create a Mode structure and assignments for the other EQs I use and assign them to their own button. Then I'll do something similar for, say, modulation effects and re-assign the buttons that switch between them, using a modifier key.

 

I still feel a bit like a 3-year-old in a jungle at times, but I think I've got most of the building blocks I need at the moment. Thanks again for the help, Des.

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You're welcome. Yes, once you understand the concepts, you can figure out the best organisational structure to setup what you need.

 

This process is not for everyone, but it's really rewarding when this work starts paying off with your own productivity. I try not to do it all at once, but to start with fundamentals, and then refine over time to change things that you now realise while working could be better, and add in more functionality etc.

 

Once the fog clears, it's quite empowering! ;)

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des99 – and anyone else interested in this thread – I just wanted to give you an update on my progress so far.

 

I've successfully created controller assignments for LPX Channel EQ and the Waves SSL G-Series EQ. Using des99's example exercise, earlier in the thread,.

 

Hi, I wanted you to know I'm dealing with this exact same thing, and fortunately came back to this forum at a time when someone was actively discussing this! Des pointed me to this thread. I've gone through - and someone else on another forum posted a video that was helpful - and I've been experimenting tonight.

 

Here's what I did, as a simple test: I created two Modes, one called Upper Manual, and one Lower Manual, for the B3.

 

Now this worked great - I was able to assign my 9 Sliders to the 9 Drawbars in each. So I could manually click the zones in the Controller Assignment window to toggle between the two. Perfect.

 

So, how do I now press a button to get it to change between the two? So what I did was create another Mode called "Mode Change" and "learned" a Button Push for that.

 

What you do is, with that new command selected, change it from "Selected Track" to "Mode Change". Then you get a pull down menu of the things in your Modes. My Zone was A-800 for my controller, so mine said "A-800: Upper Manual" "A-800: Lower Manual" and I can't rememebr if the last one said "A-800: Mode Change" or just Mode Change - but there were 3 choices for the 3 Modes I created.

 

I couldn't really get it to work for a while but I had read about "zoneless" and "modeless" commands. And there's the "no Mode" thing. So my discovery was, I could create a Mode Change message that would go to Upper Manual. Then I could create one for Lower Manual. But it would only work if I put the opposite one in each Mode - and both the the Mode Change mode. I thought it would be silly to have to put a bunch in each Mode like that, so I tried some different things and here's basically what I've figured out:

 

If you put a single command in the no Mode mode, then you can have 1 button go to 1 other Mode - like in my case Upper Manual. This means you have to dedicate that button to that Mode. And if you have 8 Modes, you're going to need to use 8 buttons.

 

What I haven't tried is what happens if you "nest" mode messages. In theory, since the commands are mode dependent, if they're not in the no Mode mode, then they should change to the function they have in the mode they're in. So that means you should be able to just use one command to go to the next mode, and one to go the previous one.

 

What I did discover instead was, if I put a Mode Change command in the no Mode mode, and another in the Mode Change mode I created (confused yet?) and set the first one to Relative with Key Repeat selected, and the second one to Rotate (the options on the bottom) it would scroll through the modes!!!! This way, I could make 1 button press advance through the modes.

 

The only problem with this is, there's no visual feedback as to which mode you're in with the window closed. All the "feedback" stuff at the bottom seems to be for sending information to your controller - mine has no MIDI coming back (using 5 pin) and I'm not sure it's supported, but it'd be interesting to try it. Maybe tomorrow.

 

So I'd much rather have 1 button I could just advance through (or Inc/Dec) the Modes, except again I won't know which one I'm in unless I can keep track mentally. So that's probably not going to work.

 

but FWIW I found I could assign a knob this same way and advance through the modes (forward only, or down on the screen) and by using the Scaling box I could "slow down" how fast it selected each one (i.e. the knob had to travel further in order to pick the next one). This might be useful with a click detent knob, but again without any feedback on screen as to which mode is selected, it's all guesswork. What it does is start at the top one and go down through all of them, then jumps to the top again as you scroll the knob - either direction.

 

My plan tomorrow is to connect it via USB to see if I can get any feedback on the Roland as to which mode I'm in - though it's not very practical with the small screen and its location and also program a button to be Inc/Dec (because right now it's just set to 0-127 I think) and see if that will step through the modes without some of the other settings.

 

So the direct-to-mode approach might be the only practical way to do it for more than a few modes.

 

What I need to find out is if I can use something like Shift plus another Button to change modes - it does have a numeric keypad I've never used and this might be the way to do it.

 

I'll report back with what I find out.

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Looks as if we've gone down similar paths, levets. With all those drawbars, the B3's a natural, isn't it. I didn't know about Scaling, which seems a useful tip. So much to learn! :D

 

One of the many things, relates to the set-up des99 outlines earlier in the thread, whereby Mode A will switch to Mode B, and vise versa. Although both my Mode Changes are identical except for the Mode they switch to (they're a cut-and-paste in fact), as soon as I added the Mode Change to Mode B, the action of the Mode Change on Mode A became momentary. In other words, as soon as I let go off the bottom, it reverts to Mode A.

 

In realty, this suits me very well, because it means I can alter the Q values on an EQ, then revert to all the other controls as soon as I release the button. However, I don't understand why it's happening. Until now, I thought that an Unsigned Toggle with a Min MIDI value of 0 would be momentary and one with a Min value of 1 would latch (ie stay switched). There's obviously more to it than that.

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as soon as I added the Mode Change to Mode B, the action of the Mode Change on Mode A became momentary. In other words, as soon as I let go off the bottom, it reverts to Mode A.

 

 

When I first did the two messages - one set to relative and the other to rotate, what was happening was that when it got to the last thing in the list, it would go back to the first mode in the list with the next button push - but it would only flash there for a second before jumping to 2nd mode. I found out the "Key Repeat" checkbox would prevent that and make them advance as you would think. I don't have my buttons on momentary though. The Key Repeat is greyed out in some settings (like I think it's available in relative mode, but not rotate) but since you are OK with the way it's working it may not matter.

 

The video I saw did exactly this - he used a momentary button to switch to a mode, then released it to go back to his main mode - I could see where that would be helpful if I was working with a Synth and then wanted to tweak a reverb or delay depth either in the synth (like Alchemy) or on a channel strip. So I can think of some uses for this so I'm going to experiment today.

 

I was thinking, crap, I'm going to now have to buy another multi-button controller so I could get to all the Zones I'd want to get to. I have an FCB 1010 pedalboard with 10 buttons I could use - and set them to different CC#s in different banks.

 

Then I realized - I can probably actually use the control maps on my A-800 to do this - I could dedicate say, 24 CC#s to Modes, and use say, 8 pads in on Control Map 1, 4 on Control Map 2, 4 on Control Map 3, 2 on Control Map 4, and so on so that when I'm in Control Map 1 that could be my "Mixer" Control Map and I could use Mode 1 to control the first 8 channel faders using my sliders, and then change to Mode 2 to do the next 8 channels, then Mode 3 to do the next 8, and so on.

 

For synths I might need only 2 maps - one to control most of the stuff I'd control, and a 2nd map to do Verb and Delay depth - though I'd have all the controls available to use for a 2nd purpose so I could go hog wild.

 

I'm going to see how that works today - the biggest issue I've had with that is just programming all the CC#s to each of the elements - cumbersome in the Roland Software!

 

I have my eyes on an Arturai Keylab 61 MKii because I have V-Collection and it integrates with that and Analog Lab, plus it's got 8 additional buttons and 8 more pads than I currently have, plus a separate set of Transport controls, so I'd be able to spread out my Mode changes more easily. Maybe that's a good excuse...supposedly getting a "Christmas Bonus" in my paycheck ;-)

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One of the many things, relates to the set-up des99 outlines earlier in the thread, whereby Mode A will switch to Mode B, and vise versa. Although both my Mode Changes are identical except for the Mode they switch to (they're a cut-and-paste in fact), as soon as I added the Mode Change to Mode B, the action of the Mode Change on Mode A became momentary. In other words, as soon as I let go off the bottom, it reverts to Mode A.

 

It depends on whether the button is a momentary or a toggle switch, and how you've learned the on and off commands. All these things are possible, it's up to you do decide how you best want to set up buttons, and how they behave.

 

Until now, I thought that an Unsigned Toggle with a Min MIDI value of 0 would be momentary and one with a Min value of 1 would latch (ie stay switched). There's obviously more to it than that.

 

That's incorrect. Whether a button behaves as a momentary or toggle is dependent on how that button acts on the hardware controller (the behaviour is usually changeable in that hardware's editor) and is nothing to do with Logic as such.

 

In general, a button has two values, an ON and and OFF value. If the hardware is in toggle mode, when you first press the button, it will send one MIDI "ON" message, (which will usually be a value of 127). When you press the button again, it will send an OFF message - a value of 0.

 

When the button is in momentary mode, when you *press* the button it will send and ON/127, and when you then release the button it will send a value of OFF/0.

 

levets: good luck with the 'feedback'. My nanoKontrol can't do that, so I'm going to make up a graphic I can display on screen, with the assignments marked out.

 

Yes, wouldn't something like this be a great feature? ( :) ) Feedback in general requires some "intelligent" handling, and isn't possible on a dumb MIDI controller beyond some very basic options that's aren't flexible and aren't worth going into here.

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