CC automation - monogram console

I am sure this is covered somewhere - but I can't find it - so I am asking...

 

I purchased a monogram console (was palette gear) to use as a midi controller - I have seen a bunch of people online who use them and in looking into it, it fit my needs.

I was pretty easy to set-up and assign the faders to the cc's I wanted but now integrating that into Logic is my issue.

 

I start with an assumption - I am thinking that I should be able to set up my controller, so that I can open a document, assign an instrument, and start recording using the faders to control modulation/expression etc and that that automation data will be recorded on that track. This may be wrong.

 

So... going on the assumption above, when I go into edit the different automation parameters, I do not see any data in those particular automation lanes. The automation that I played in while recording the midi, is reflected in the overall sound that was recorded, but there is no data for that automation in the modulation/expression lanes.

 

Do I need to enable the track for "touch" mode, for example to get the automation data to be recorded and editable? (My nativity. - when I watch these videos on YouTube, it seems that they are able to just start and record and add automation all off the bat. -- I must be missing something somewhere.

 

Can you all point me in the right direction so I can learn how to do this?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Logic Pro X 10.6

2018 Mac mini

64 GB

Monogram travel console as a mdi controller

Don’t confuse recording MIDI controller data, with automation. Two different things (that have some confusing overlaps if you’re not solid on the concepts.)

Totally fair and I am not solid on the difference... so the bigger question is - is there a way to set-up your system so that when you open a new document and play in midi data with expression/modulation attached to it - can that be recorded in real time into the automation lanes?

You can’t record MIDI cc to track automation - track automation is not for recording MIDI data. You *can* use the dual-purpose *region* automation to record MIDI data in real time though (as well as conventional automation).

 

However, region automation requires an existing record to record the MIDI data into, so it doesn’t work if you are recording a midi performance at the same time (as the region doesn’t exist until the recording is complete).

 

Really, you should record MIDI CC data just as a regular sequencer does - as MIDI - for the best workflow.

 

What is it you are trying to achieve, exactly?

What I am trying to do is - add expression/modulation/vibrato (mostly) as I record the midi data - then if I need to edit it, I want to be able to do that -- currently I can add expression/modulation, etc. while I imputes the midi, but I have no way of then editing it.. thanks for the help with this!

Of course there are ways of editing recorded MIDI CC data - *many* ways!

 

You should record it as you are doing. To edit, you can display CC lanes in the piano roll editor, use the Step Editor, or use the region automation MIDI lane display.

 

Here's a track I recorded into the sequencer (using "Record") with CC #1 Modulation, and here's how to edit it using the region automation display:

 

 

(This behaviour is a bit confusing because it's *not" "automation" as such, it's MIDI data, but they just combined the old Hyper Draw edit mode with the automation system, but it is a bit confusing. Think of it like bending the automation edit mode to edit MIDI data in the region...)

This explanation is really helpful thanks -- I tried to do what I think you are doing and when I open up the region in automation window - there are no data point to edit or add to. I don't know how to screen capture and though I made a video and tried compressing it - it is still too large.

P.S. This is EXACTLY what I am trying to achieve! lol

 

Of course there are ways of editing recorded MIDI CC data - *many* ways!

 

You should record it as you are doing. To edit, you can display CC lanes in the piano roll editor, use the Step Editor, or use the region automation MIDI lane display.

 

Here's a track I recorded into the sequencer (using "Record") with CC #1 Modulation, and here's how to edit it using the region automation display:

 

lpx.gif

 

(This behaviour is a bit confusing because it's *not" "automation" as such, it's MIDI data, but they just combined the old Hyper Draw edit mode with the automation system, but it is a bit confusing. Think of it like bending the automation edit mode to edit MIDI data in the region...)

This explanation is really helpful thanks -- I tried to do what I think you are doing and when I open up the region in automation window - there are no data point to edit or add to. I don't know how to screen capture and though I made a video and tried compressing it - it is still too large.

 

So how are you generating the MIDI data for expression/modulation/etc?

 

Let's take a simple example - modulation - are you using your Mod wheel for this on your keyboard? Press record, play a few notes, and move the mod wheel, and then stop Logic. Do you see the mod data recorded in the sequence (it should show like some background bars in the region, like at the beginning of my screenie).

 

If so, you've recorded the CC#1 mod data and at this point you should be able to edit it following the screenie I posted.

 

If you're generating this data in other ways (eg, you've "learned" some knobs to a Kontakt parameter or something) this is different (and actually *is* automation and needs to be recorded with the automation system, not into a region - or set up to work differently). One thing at a time - try to do the steps above and let me know whether that works for you.

Thanks for your patience. I did what you suggested and the mod wheel on my keyboard - did exactly what I want. I have an external midi controller that I am trying to program - I thought I had - but that seems to be the issue -- the issue with my controller is that it is not specifically designed to be a controller - (monogram/palette gear) - it can be used for photo stuff as well as other things - though it is a controller a lot of people use - so... anyway -- I guess my issue is setting it up with logic and that I haven't been able to figure out I guess - cause I thought I had it set up correctly. I had searched the forum for posts about using this system, but there weren't focused on this issue. I have read a ton of articles on trying to set this up and gone in the the expert controller assignments... etc. Any suggestion on where else to turn?

Ok, so mod wheel works. Are you saying the other controls you are using don't work in the same way as the mod wheel?

 

What are you using for expression/etc, and how are you using this with Logic, exactly? Is it set up as a control surface in Logic? (Ie does it have an icon in the control surface setup window).

 

If not, how does it send MIDI to Logic? USB connection?

Are you saying the other controls you are using don't work in the same way as the mod wheel?

Yes they don't seem to be...

 

 

I have a monogram console - see pic. I am trying to use the three faders to control expression/modulation/vibrato It is attached via USB directly in to the Mac.

 

I tried to set it up as a control surface (see pic)

 

I tried to set up controller assignments (see pic) (I am pretty sure there is where I have messed things up)

Don't do this. If it's not a supported control surface, don't try to fake it (it's not a "recording light" - remove anything you've done in the control surface setup window).

 

Similarly, remove any custom controller assignments you've made for these faders - doing this changes the behaviour and means you'd have to use track automation to record changes, which is not what you want.

 

Having done that, use whatever software that can change the MIDI data the faders send, and program each fader to send the MIDI CC you want - CC#11, whatever.

 

Now Logic will record that MIDI data in exactly the same way as the mod wheel data.

 

In Kontakt, various instruments like Spitfire etc should respond to MIDI expression data etc. If they don't, then use *Kontakt's* MIDI learn to learn the incoming MIDI CC's from the faders to the desired parameters.

 

Having done that, use whatever software that can change the MIDI data the faders send, and program each fader to send the MIDI CC you want - CC#11, whatever.

 

Now Logic will record that MIDI data in exactly the same way as the mod wheel data.

 

In Kontakt, various instruments like Spitfire etc should respond to MIDI expression data etc. If they don't, then use *Kontakt's* MIDI learn to learn the incoming MIDI CC's from the faders to the desired parameters.

 

I removed what you suggested from the Control Surface Set-up and the Assignments. I am not sure what you mean by "use whatever software..." I have programmed the faders to specific CC #s- see pic.

 

The website for the console has these steps:

 

However I am having a hard time trying to have Logic "learn each fader" in the expert view of the assignments window-- That is where things go astray...

 

Thoughts? Again, many thanks for the time and help!

I am not sure what you mean by "use whatever software..."

 

Well, that software is called "Creator" in this case, and from your pic you're doing it just fine.

 

However I am having a hard time trying to have Logic "learn each fader" in the expert view of the assignments window-- That is where things go astray...

 

I *did not* say learn using Logic's controller assignments. Quite the opposite - I said *remove* any custom assignments you made, for the reasons mentioned. The second you try to use *Logic's* controller assignments, you will no longer be able to do what you want to do, because, as I've said, that means Logic will not longer be able to record those MIDI messages into a MIDI region.

 

Please follow my instructions I posted exactly - if you're not sure what I meant, then by all means ask me to clarify anything.

Ok -- I think I am following directions...

 

I have used "creator" to assign the cc's to the faders I want.

 

Then I went in and created a new document - I created three tracks - a Cinematic Studio Strings Violin, a BBCSO Violin and a Cinebrass Hrn patch.

 

When I enable the CSS Violin - there is no modulation or expression slider/knob/etc. displayed. I tried to see if the instrument would respond to the faders on the controller, it did not so I moved on.

 

When I enabled the BBCSO Violin, I was able to "learn" the expression and modulation and connect those to the faders on the controller. I then recorded some midi using the faders. No data was captured. When I recorded the same instrument using the mod wheel data was captured - see pic.

 

When I enabled the Cinebrass sample, The full mix slider was connected to the expression fader. There was no slider/knob for modulation. When I tried to record midi - I was able to see the lines behind the midi notes - indicating (I think) that there e was data received. however when I went into the region to look, I saw that only aftertouch and after touch data was recorded. see pics.

 

So clearly I have not correctly "connected" the controller to Logic, so that it reads the controller's fader data. I must be missing a step? Have also included pics of the control surface setup as it now appears and the control assignments window

I have used "creator" to assign the cc's to the faders I want.

 

Ok great. And you've confirmed that you can now successfully record MIDI data from these sliders into a region, and edit them with the region automation MIDI lanes as demonstrated?

 

(Forget for the moment haw various different instruments respond, because different instruments do this differently, and may or may not be already set up for this. One thing at a time.)

 

So clearly I have not correctly "connected" the controller to Logic, so that it reads the controller's fader data.

 

There is no mysterious "connecting" process. You just want the sliders to send MIDI CC's at this stage, that's it.

 

I must be missing a step? Have also included pics of the control surface setup as it now appears and the control assignments window

 

You did what I asked and removed anything you added as a control surface on the MIDI ports the fader box is transmitting on?

The controller transmits the CC data to the instruments, (the graphic sliders move), but then the instrument does transmit the data to the midi region - the midi data is transmitted, but not the cc data

I can’t quite understand what you mean from your words, but if you are saying you move the controls, and the plugin parameters change, but the MIDI data is not recorded in a region, then you still have learned controller assignments active which you haven’t deleted as per my above instructions.

BINGO! - I went in the assignments and the "no zone" had learned assignments. I deleted those and I was able to do what I wanted.

 

Last question - When I opened the new document - I had to have the instrument "learn" the two faders on the controller. Is there a way to set things up so that I don't have to "teach" the instruments in each new document?

Different instruments handle MIDI learn differently - you'll need to check out their own documentation for the various features in a given plugin.

Ok - Thanks for ALL your help - I don't know your name- but I can still say Thanks des99!!

You're welcome!