Internal Vs External Workflow

Hi, I'm Dez. Newbie, be nice!

 

I've been with Logic 7 (!! yup, 7!), then my old iMac died. Got new set up with Logic Pro X... and trying to get my head around it. I do a mix of folk & electro, therefore mix of Midi (using Logic synths / beats) and Audio (acoustic instruments / vocals). I've just got a Samsung T7 usb3 to save CPU... hopefully! But I'm confused on this issue:

 

I like the idea of saving projects and audio files on the SSD, leaving the iMac internals to run Logic & Synths / Library. Is this good / normal practice? I've read about storing library/loops on SSD... but don't like the idea of having to create all those symlinks / aliases etc.

 

I have formatted the SSD to APFS.

 

Help & tips appreciated. Basically... I just need to know the pros & cons of using SSD in terms of workflow / music style = beats/synths for groove and mostly audio (folky instruments / vocals) overdubs.

 

Thanks

Your CPU deals with processing as much data as possible as quick as possible. It doesn't care one bit (see what i did there?) where that data comes from. So you're not "saving CPU" by using another drive.

 

Now, you can extend your storage capacity by using one or more additional drives. If that's an external drive (which is a given when using a Macbook, Mini, etc.) you need to look at the drive type (SSD is pretty much mandatory for a work drive nowadays) as well as the interface speed (USB3 is perfectly fine).

 

APFS is right for SSD.

 

Logic library on the internal seems reasonable, given that there are lots of problems people seem to have when trying to relocate their Logic library to another drive, and also given that enough space remains for day to day computer operation. 3rd party synths usually allow to select where content should be installed, so if you're tight on internal space, put these elsewhere. Projects can also well live on an external drive.

Thanks Fuzz!

I think I've confused 'CPU' with 'space', haven't I?

 

Reason I'm asking this is - I've always worked 'within the box' and have not bothered with ext.drives. This time, I want to be as efficient/organized (file wise) as possible with the budget/gear I've got. I'm not a pro studio, just a songwriter really.

 

Lately, I experimented with saving a project onto the SSD containing 1 midi / Audio Instrument track (Logic Retro synth) and 1 Audio track (vocal). But when I opened the project 'package content', I could only see the audio file, and not the midi file. Where does Logic save the midi file for this project? Sorry if this is basic for some, appreciate the help.

There is no "midi file" in a project. All the MIDI data within your project is saved within the project file in Logic's internal data format.

 

If you want to export a MIDI file, you can do that from Logic.

MIDI data is contained in the project file itself, while audio files are separate and kept in the Media Files folder.

 

Also, there's two ways to save a project, as package or as folder. While package seems 'neater', saving as folder gives you better and immediate access to media files in the long run.

Des99 and Fuzz, thanks! So I've been looking for nothing MIDI wise? (lol!)

 

So, by using the SSD to save projects (songs), and the iMac internals to run the software/plug ins/Logic synths etc (i don't have 3rd party gear), will my iMac struggle while recording multiple audio tracks at the same time? i.e. a drum kit with 8 mics. My old iMac was able to this with much less RAM/Processing.

 

I've read somewhere about spreading the buffer range over 6 cores, will this help?

 

I suppose I'm trying to find tips on setting up Logic preferences to run as smoothly as possible with SSD (but as Fuzz said, data location doesn't matter in terms of CPU).

 

See signature for gear. I'm also using my beloved Focusrite LS56 as Audio Interface (which they discontinued the driver upgrade for), but working fine up to now.

 

There's so many videos on You Tube, I spend ages watching stuff that's not really relevant to what I'm looking for, hence joining this forum.

I prefer to keep my (active) projects on the internal and my library on the external. I deal with a lot of large audio files and find this works best but my external drive is not SSD.

 

If you want your library on and external drive, you no longer have to use sym links to move the library (if you’re using a recent version of logic). They added the ability to relocate library directly from logic some time ago (I think v. 10.4).

Just to give a frame of reference, I am (or more to the thruth, was, until we all got grounded) regularly recording 15 tracks of full band during rehearsal and performance, on a 2012 MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM, to the internal 512GB SSD, sometimes 4hours without a break, with a latency of under 2ms. All this while the computer was providing 1 stereo FoH mix, 5 stereo in-ear mixes, triggered sample playback and special FX triggered by footswitch.

 

So I guess your computer should be able to handle 8mics of drumkit and calculate a medium sized country's yearly budget in its spare time while doing so.

LOL! Thanks Fuzz! I should be able to get Wales to rejoin the EU then!! LOL!

 

So my iMac is sturdy enough for multiple tracking, great!

 

But, a recent recording session crashed, a notification saying something like 'disk drive overload' came up... the project only contained 3 midi tracks and about 4 audio tracks. Since then I've spread the buffer range over 6 cores, is this normal practice? Buffer range was on 'auto' before. And buffer was at 128, audio 48k.

 

Why would it crash with such a small project?

I prefer to keep my (active) projects on the internal and my library on the external. I deal with a lot of large audio files and find this works best but my external drive is not SSD.

 

If you want your library on and external drive, you no longer have to use sym links to move the library (if you’re using a recent version of logic). They added the ability to relocate library directly from logic some time ago (I think v. 10.4).

 

I just replied to you, but the post seems to have disappeared??!! Anyway, thanks!

 

How does it differ having library on ext.drive and project on int.drive.... and vice versa? What determines the best workflow? And why not all on one drive?

Well in my case my external drive is not SSD so my situation varies a bit than yours.

 

In any case, Logic loads samples into ram when opening a song whereas it will continually read audio files (recorded tracks) as needed. So you want your projects on the fastest drive. I don’t think an SSD external drive running at 3.0 should have bottlenecks even when reading writing audio tracks but if you have bottleneck issues (like a hub with a lot of devices connected) you could get disk overload errors while recording or playing back. The library disk speed will basically affect loading times and have less effect on performance. That is why it makes sense to keep active projects on the internal and library on external (in some cases). That being said, I can run projects from my external (not SSD) drive without issues and I usually have about 20 audio tracks. But I also use a dedicated USB port for the external drive so don’t have bottleneck issues.

recording session crashed, ... about 4 audio tracks.

This clearly is not right.

 

There's reports of people having problems recording 3 or 4 tracks when realistically they should be able to record 40 with room to spare, but since I never have encountered this I can't suggest anything.

 

I'm not sure how much the fusion drive contributes to the problem, others might chime in with more substantial experience on that type of drive.

 

Having the process buffer range on Automatic ensures best use of resources. You can turn that down so other apps running at the same time, say, a video projection to your live act, get their share of CPU too.

The Fusion drive in a 2019 iMac certainly could be the problem. The early Fusion drive in the 2013 iMac (I had one) had a 128GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. The 2019 1TB Fusion drive (as far as I can tell) is a 32GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. That would almost guarantee that "application I/O" would wind up on the HDD.

 

It's really hard to tell which activity winds up on the HDD, but I would expect that any SSD on a USB3 bus would be far better. Remember - average access time on a spinning HDD is counted in milliseconds - Seagate drives vintage 2017 claim less than 8.5ms, so call it 8 ms. That puts us in the range of a maximum of 125 I/O operations per second to the disk.

 

I will let this chart spell it out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOPS

 

Happiest day working with Logic on my iMac was when I plugged in the 500GB SSD on a USB port. Things just started working again. I was fine when working with 20 tracks. When I tried 40 it was all over.

 

Average amount of time to gain access to 40 tracks worth of data on a drive is 320ms - called one third of a second anyway...

Happiest day working with Logic on my iMac was when I plugged in the 500GB SSD on a USB port. Things just started working again.

 

Thanks, what was the SSD used for in this instance? To save projects? Store library? Both?

projects - 500GB WD SATA SSD - libraries remain on the internal drive

Thanks. Obviously, a back up SSD would be sensible for projects, right? But my FLS56 is taking up one USB C port, and the SSD the other (direct into iMac). Am I right in thinking a USB C hub would help solve this? And how do they perform? i.e. I have Final Cut Pro... and thinking of getting an SSD for that too. But in order to back up, I don't want to be pulling out various USB C cables just to do simple tasks.

 

robinloops mentions 'bottle neck issues' above, is this where bottle neck happens? Within a hub? Any hubs more trustworthy / faster than others?

 

Or maybe just share the 1TB etx.SSD between Logic and FCut for now, allocating 500GB for each app, and buy a new SSD when it's full.

A backup drive does not need to be SSD as speed is not of importance. Rather go for a bigger drive, as you'll get incremental backups (you can choose if you want to retrieve the version from yesterday or from a week ago).

A backup drive does not need to be SSD as speed is not of importance. Rather go for a bigger drive, as you'll get incremental backups (you can choose if you want to retrieve the version from yesterday or from a week ago).

 

Thanks. Of course! I'm obsessed with SSD's at the moment. 'Incremental backups'? How does this work in terms of method from drive to drive? Any thing to do with Time Machine? Or another back up method? Apologies for my serious lack of basic back up knowledge.

Yes, Time Machine, as it's built in and almost foolproof.

 

It backs up every hour, but only on unused cycles so you won't notice it while working. First backup is a full backup, so that takes a while. Next backup it only backs up the changed files, and so on. If you need to retrieve files, you can go back 24 hours on a 1 hour grid, then 30 days on a daily grid and then a weekly grid for the even older stuff until the backup drive is full, which is when it begins to delete the oldest stuff that has a newer version.

 

The nice thing is that every snapshot shows all files although only the changed ones were actually written.

 

Use it, you will thank me later.

I use SSD project drives plugged in to a USB3 (powered) hub. They work fine through the hub. UASP enclosure...

https://blog.startech.com/post/all-you-need-to-know-about-uasp/

Thanks guys, need a 'like button' for all replies!

 

Much appreciated, starting to get my head around it now. It's worth getting all this right before getting creative.