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Final Cut subscription based soon - Logic next?


logness

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https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/24/final-cut-pro-subscription/

 

This is really annoying if you use the software only once in a while, maybe one day per month, and then still have to pay the money every month. With much used software this is not a problem, but with little used software subscription is really terrible. I find this development alarming!

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Apple are very keen on service revenue (since iPhone revenue growth started to slow), and this would help increase that figure.

 

If they *do* go this direction for the ProApps (and you can be sure they've been thinking about it), I would hope it would be an *option*, and not a requirement. Time will tell.

 

For most folks, there is a practical limit to how many ongoing monthly subscriptions you can justify paying for. I guess companies vie for importance, so they become one of the few you can justify.

 

But for most of us - imagine if you were still paying, say, $5/mo for every piece of software over the years you ever bought. Continually. I think most people would be shocked at how much that would cost on a monthly basis...

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You can see that as separate issues, or as one. Because the costs add up. I always saw that relative low prices of Final Cut/Logic as a reason to buy apple hardware, now its getting more expensive. And its a fact, apple hardware is more expensive (internal SSD Prices??). Fans will of course always find ways to see this as an advantage. Apple could be much better, if fans would be a little bit critical.
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No one, not even the biggest Apple fans, thinks Apple's pricing on SSD storage or RAM (or cloud storage space) is an advantage. They are significant markup profit centres, and Apple are fairly, er, let's say "aggressive" in putting in the minimum they can get away with in the hope people pay more for better spec'd models. It's good for profit, but not so good for users.

 

At least in the past, there were ways to source third-party components, but this is no longer possible, Apple have nicely shut down those possibilities for the most part...

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You can see that as separate issues, or as one. Because the costs add up. I always saw that relative low prices of Final Cut/Logic as a reason to buy apple hardware, now its getting more expensive. And its a fact, apple hardware is more expensive (internal SSD Prices??). Fans will of course always find ways to see this as an advantage. Apple could be much better, if fans would be a little bit critical.

Things could always improve, I agree. And there's certainly nothing wrong with voicing opinions or discussing this. My personal views are different than yours. First, I don't consider myself an Apple fan. I couldn't care less what logo is on my computer, my phone or my music subscription service. It's a tool, a means to an end. It just so happens that I chose to use Logic back when it was running on both platforms and picked Apple as it seemed the more sensible choice back in 1998 when I had to choose. But in recording studios I was also using PC's running windows, AKAI DD devices, Pro Tools, Otaris, Sonys, Ampegs, whatever was around.

 

You're saying Apple hardware is more expensive? I paid more in 1998 for my first PowerPC G4 Macintosh than I paid in 2013 for the last Mac I purchased, the MacBook Air (with SSD) that I am still using today. And I can do so much more with it. Yes that machine wouldn't suit every professional composer and producer out there, I realize that. Even for my own use, it's getting long in the tooth and at some point I'll get one of the newer M1 iMac... but I've been waiting and waiting and it has helped me realize that I don't truly need anything more than what I'm using right now. And this is my full time job, I'm working on this Mac pretty much all day long, every day. It's also our TV screen, we watch Netflix on it in the evening. I used to have a 55" Samsung TV in the living room but I sold it four years ago and haven't missed it since.

 

As for Logic, I'm sure you know that it used to be a $1,299 software and you had to purchase jam packs, software synths and reverb plug-ins separately. Some people I know who bought all the packages and upgrades on a regular basis spent over $7,000 on the software. I spent less but since 1998, I must have spent maybe $3,000 on Logic licenses, only $199 in the past 8 years! So definitely less than it used to be.

 

So in any case that's why to me, the discussion of being locked into the Apple eco-system is a different one from Logic potentially becoming a SaaS license. And honestly to me neither really is an issue whatsoever, I see both as relatively inexpensive and I find it incredible that I can still crank out all the work I'm doing from an inexpensive portable 2013 machine and that I'm still using this incredible software that I've paid only $199 eight years ago.

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If you're listening Apple Logic decision makers...

 

If on the following:

1393939976_AUInstruments.png.58c5ba5122d2ccd7ac927f6d1484edf9.png

486979234_AUEffects.png.4659b7361d7fd2d1fe830a99dc797d3a.png

1161525529_AUEffects2.png.761871520120dd36b7efc5e88fcb6fba.png

343108591_AppleLoops.png.50d3796cb48d401e298183c4755a04ab.png

 

You give us new presets and/or Apple Loops every month, I would be on board for the subscription.

 

To me, subscription is for newspapers/magazines, with those, you get new content to read.

Having subscription to software where you get nothing, what that does for me is look at other software.

Adobe, if you're listening, that's why I bought Pixelmator, Affinity Designer/Publisher, Graphic, etc... heck that's why I bought Final Cut Pro and Motion too.

 

Sadly I also understand for companies like Pixalmator, Affinity, etc... that they need to generate cash flow in order to survive otherwise they won't survive.

 

Even open source knows you need cash to survive, that's why you see the donate button on thier sites.

 

I'm so glad I got this MacMini M1, now I can backup the latest Logic, Final Cut Pro, Motion and keep using that.

 

As far as I can tell, you can also get your latest software from the Apple Store.

If they go subscription based, you have to purchase that, if I don't purchase that I still get my previous Logic, Final Cut Pro, Motion.

 

So with that, I really don't mind if they go subscription based.

I'll purchase it if they give new content, if not, I just won't purchase it.

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Ok, I'm gonna say it, this is disturbing news to me. Having paid Adobe for the Creative Suite licenses for years, the subscription Creative Cloud (or is that Cash Cow?) was the end of that relationship. I still have several older perpetual license versions available. The Affinity products are a fabulous and tremendously cost-effective alternative.

 

Bravo to Presonus for offering both subscription and paid lincense versions of Studio One, Notion, and other offerings.

 

Having used other DAW over the years has only increased appreciation for Logic. I would not have made any noise if the updates and upgrades to LPX were for fee vs. for free. But a subscription is not going to be acceptable on this end.

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I usually don't make noise about Apple prices but putting a 256gb SSD on the $6.000 starting model of Mac Pro is so ridiculous and greedy. Even mid iMac comes with 512.

As for the subscription I don't mind as it will most likely be equal to yearly paid upgrades of other DAWs and Logic cost just $200 for the past 8 years.

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As a very busy person with little time for music production anymore, I could never justify a subscription that I may or may not be able to even use.

 

I don’t think logic will go the subscription route because they use it to motivate users to choose Mac (aka sell hardware) and a subscription would turn away casual users.

 

As a (not by choice) casual user, if logic went subscription I would probably also not buy another Mac. I love my Mac but hardly use a computer for anything anymore other than music production. It would make even less sense to turn away all casual music producers from the Mac platform altogether.

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  • 2 months later...
To enjoy some idle speculation, the option to purchase Logic Pro or Final Cut with a new Mac has been removed from the Apple Store. Now only the Education bundle is available for purchase.

 

(I've been pricing out M1 Macs for a bit in lieu of actually buying one. Which is how I noticed that the purchase option for FCP/LP has disappeared).

 

Previously on Apple Store:

 

Previously on Apple Store.png

 

Now on Apple Store:

 

Now on Apple Store.png

 

it shows here (NY)...

490472322_ScreenShot2021-04-28at12_46_50PM.thumb.png.63dabf458e5dd9c6b96d3ee434d4dadd.png

 

try changing something from the default configuration (ie 16gb ram... you can then go back to 8), and LP & FCP should be there...

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I don’t approve of the subscription model. Period. If apple applies the subscription model to logicpro I will be out. I’d be totally ok if they want to charge us for major upgrades every couple of years! But subscription = I’m out and probably move to windows in the process.

 

I am philosophically opposed to subscription software. It breaks down under capitalistic principles. It takes power away from consumers. What you want is for apple to work hard on every single major upgrade in order to bring updates that consumers actually desire enough to be willing to pay for it. That means the developer has to do their market research, find out what consumers would be willing to pay for in new features and fixes, then do the work and hopefully sell the new work. That Is demand driving the supply which is fundamental!

 

When you switch to subscription model the consumers lose any purchasing power to drive the demand. They pay up front and just hope and pray the dev will give them what they want. The dev doesn’t have to follow any demand because it gives them a lot of freedom to slide around and develop whatever they think might generate new subscriptions perhaps but it gives them a lot more leeway to get away with ignoring demands of existing users. It’s good for them it it’s not good for consumers at all. Any dev that does it, I will not use their software any more.

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To a certain degree, the fact that apple hasn’t charged anything for a logicpro upgrade in eight years has also had the same disarming effect on consumers. I mean nobody is complaining about free updates! But we also lose our voice, in the process, as consumers with demand that needs to be met. Apple can do whatever they want that they think may help sell more macs; but as existing logicpro users, we have very little influence about what might be in the next update of logicpro. All we can do is just sit here and take the free updates like it’s coming from Santa clause so whatever it is will be a nice surprise since it’s free after all.

 

I would actually PREFER it if apple were trying to be profitable with logicpro as a product and doing the aforementioned market research to meet demands. That would be worth every penny of a regular upgrade schedule like you see with other daws, IMHO.

 

The subscription model in the other hand would allow them to continue doing whatever they want except that we Pay up front for it, which is arguably worse then “free”

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as existing logicpro users, we have very little influence about what might be in the next update of logicpro.

 

Sure, but when was the last time we actually did have much individual influence in the features in Logic? I mean, I directly contributed feedback, improvements and feature suggestions for Logic back in the Logic 1.x/2.x days and those things were indeed implemented, and the developers were accessible and would engage in direct feedback.

 

But Logic has been a fairly expensive paid app up until Logic Studio 1 (LP8) and really once in the Logic 4.x days and beyond, I can't say that individuals much shaped the development of Logic. Once you're building and marketing a complex, professional app, the list of priorities and what to do becomes complex very quickly - of course you are monitoring user feedback, seeing frustrations that people are having, monitoring bug reports and so on, but you're also always in the middle of your own development plans, while also watching the competition for things they do that catch on in the market, and developing strategic partnerships and so on.

 

I don't think that the Logic team's fairly unique position of not needing Logic to continue to sell and milk the userbase for update revenue has made much practical difference in development terms, other than it has some benefits in product planning and roll out - you can be freer in how you roll stuff out as you're not continually trying to get the next one out because you need the revenue to keep going.

 

But I do think it's naive to not think Apple are at least considering transitioning these products to a regular service revenue model to improve that figure, as service revenue growth is becoming increasingly important to them as the iPhone market saturates and growth slows. We can, as ever, but wait and see...

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as existing logicpro users, we have very little influence about what might be in the next update of logicpro.

 

Sure, but when was the last time we actually did have much individual influence in the features in Logic? I mean, I directly contributed feedback, improvements and feature suggestions for Logic back in the Logic 1.x/2.x days and those things were indeed implemented, and the developers were accessible and would engage in direct feedback.

 

Did you read what I wrote about capitalistic principles? The reason they did what you asked was not out of the goodness of their heart, it was because they hoped to get paid when they released it.

 

But Logic has been a fairly expensive paid app up until Logic Studio 1 (LP8) and really once in the Logic 4.x days and beyond, I can't say that individuals much shaped the development of Logic.

 

That is plain wrong. Every software company hoping to sell their software is attempting to do market research and determine what is going to generate sales. If they didn't meet your specific expectations, it could be that your expectations did not line up with enough other people to make the cut..but still..that was a case of not enough demand...so they didn't do it. But other people most certainly DID get what they wanted...as Emagic worked very heard every release cycle to figure what new features would generate sales.

 

 

I don't think that the Logic team's fairly unique position of not needing Logic to continue to sell and milk the userbase for update revenue

 

Milking the user base is exactly what a subscription model will encourage. When they are driven by actual "demand", then the majority of users are getting new features that they want...and they will choose to buy it only when the developer has met their demand.

 

But I do think it's naive to not think Apple are at least considering transitioning these products to a regular service revenue model to improve that figure, as service revenue growth is becoming increasingly important to them as the iPhone market saturates and growth slows. We can, as ever, but wait and see...

 

I am not saying they aren't thinking about it..they very well might be...its good for them! Its not good for us and I'm philosophically opposed...if they switch to that model for LogicPro, I'll be moving on..simple as that. I personally don't think they will, but we'll see.

Edited by Dewdman42
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Subscriptions can be cancelled at any time. So that theory isn’t completely accurate. If they just stop trying, they’ll loose subscribers. But I do agree they won’t need to try as hard as they would to sell new versions. But certainly would have to try harder than spending ten years not charging for new versions (updates that qualify as new version)
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