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grumblepig
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Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:39 am

Hi - this is my first post, though I probably have a hundred other "Why does/n't it do this when I do that???" questions for the forum!

I've been having frequent crashes, mostly while editing either audio or MIDI track (today I was cleaning up a vocal track, deleting space and adding fades and had at least two crashes.) When I say "crashes," I mean that Logic freezes and tells me I've run out of Application Memory and need to force quit. I'm not a very tech-headed fellow, so I don't have an easy sense of whether this is a Logic issue, or something to do with my computer or with my external drive etc. I have noticed that when Time Machine comes on automatically, that sometimes knocks Logic off track, but today, I turned the automatic backups off in TM. Also, I had no other applications open and was still getting the Force Quit message.

If someone can help me troubleshoot this, I'd appreciate it!
Logic 10.6.1
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Gianni_Gon
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:41 am

Hi there, unfortunatley I am not a pro with Logic...yet. But you will get an answer sooner or later from an expert.
I can still share the experience I had with Logic before getting a new Mac. I used to have a Mac Book Air Mid 2012 with an i5 processor and had exactly those issues with Logic that you are descirbing in your post. As soon as I got a new Mac with a better processor (2,2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7) those problems disapeared almost completley. I admit that its not perfect yet but definitley better!
You can by the way also see the CPU Load on the Display Mode "Costume" in order to estimate better which activities are putting too much load on your computer, that can help avoid future crashes.
Catalina 10.15.4
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:33 am

grumblepig wrote:
When I say "crashes," I mean that Logic freezes and tells me I've run out of Application Memory and need to force quit


According to your signature, you shouldn't have CPU power issues with M1 Mini.
Maybe try reducing the amount of Undo Steps in Logic's preferences. Do you save often while working?

Personally I wouldn't use automatic TM backups. Do them manually at the end of the day.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:45 am

triplets wrote:
grumblepig wrote:
When I say "crashes," I mean that Logic freezes and tells me I've run out of Application Memory and need to force quit


According to your signature, you shouldn't have CPU power issues with M1 Mini.
Maybe try reducing the amount of Undo Steps in Logic's preferences. Do you save often while working?

Personally I wouldn't use automatic TM backups. Do them manually at the end of the day.


I'll look into the Undo Steps trick. Thanks for the hint. And I just sorta settled into the automatic TM backup without paying much attention. I'm more than happy to switch it manual, now that it's on my mind.

I do try to save often, but one thing I'm noticing - possibly related - is that when I do save, I get about 5 seconds of spinning wheel.

Another question - also maybe related - I'm using a small WD portable drive to record audio to. Is there any likely issue with using such a drive?
Logic 10.6.1
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https://antonbarbeau.bandcamp.com/
 
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:58 am

grumblepig wrote:
Another question - also maybe related - I'm using a small WD portable drive to record audio to. Is there any likely issue with using such a drive?


How is that drive formatted?
Logic does NOT like Fat32 or ExFat formats. Only MacOSX Extended and APFS.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:14 pm

triplets wrote:
grumblepig wrote:
Another question - also maybe related - I'm using a small WD portable drive to record audio to. Is there any likely issue with using such a drive?


How is that drive formatted?
Logic does NOT like Fat32 or ExFat formats. Only MacOSX Extended and APFS.



It's formatted for Mac OS, so maybe the drive isn't an issue...

I did bump the Undo Steps down, though it was only on 5 when I checked it out. Would a reduction of a single Undo Step have much effect?

Since I got going in Logic, I use PT less and less, and so I can't say I'm noticing any similar issues in Pro Tools. My guess is that I might be running things in Logic in a way that's stressing the system.
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:23 pm

grumblepig wrote:
It's formatted for Mac OS, so maybe the drive isn't an issue...


Very easy to check:
Copy the project giving you issues to the desktop of your Mini.
Unplug the external drive and open the project from the desktop.
If everything works without delay, you know the external drive is too slow.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:41 pm

triplets wrote:
grumblepig wrote:
It's formatted for Mac OS, so maybe the drive isn't an issue...


Very easy to check:
Copy the project giving you issues to the desktop of your Mini.
Unplug the external drive and open the project from the desktop.
If everything works without delay, you know the external drive is too slow.


Well, the first thing I notice, having copied the project to the desktop as you've suggested, is that Logic doesn't so much as flinch when I hit Save, compared to the 5 seconds of spinning wheel I mentioned previously. I'm meanwhile trying to put that project through its paces by adding a few million-note MIDI tracks to be very edited - all while keeping multiple other apps open! Seems pretty certain that my external drive is indeed too slow. Thanks again for the help here.

(I guess an obvious extra question would be - can you suggest a few external drives I should look at?)
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 am

At this point you should get an external SSD. USB 3 should be plenty for audio.
If you plan on editing 4k video, maybe consider thunderbolt SSD.

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/externa ... -Envoy-Pro
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:50 pm

A semi-sidenote here... I ordered a Samsung SSD. My Sweetwater rep replied to an email from me after I'd gone ahead with the Samsung, but he's suggesting sticking with HDD. There's a Glyph Studio 4T model for close to what I paid for the 2T Samsung. Another plus for the Glyph is that it's got a ye olde FW800 port, which would be handy with my older laptops. I used to travel constantly - living in Berlin, touring the EU and UK, then coming back to California, around and around. Being "stuck" in one place these days means the desktop Glyph has extra resonance. But I'm generally naive about all this stuff. Triplets above suggests SSD and many others do as well. Any further thoughts from anyone on this?
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:27 am

grumblepig wrote:
Another plus for the Glyph is that it's got a ye olde FW800 port, which would be handy with my older laptops.


Another great option:

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewir ... _FW400_USB
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
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David Nahmani
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:34 am

grumblepig wrote:
My Sweetwater rep replied to an email from me after I'd gone ahead with the Samsung, but he's suggesting sticking with HDD.

Why??? That's like suggesting to stick with a CRT display monitor. You'll be much happier with the newer, faster, less fragile and generally more reliable SSD with no moving parts.
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fuzzfilth
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:52 am

when I do save, I get about 5 seconds of spinning wheel.I'm using a small WD portable drive

Quite likely the drive is spinning down after a while in an attempt to save power and much of the audio may be in RAM at that point. Waking it up with a Save command will take about 5sec to come back online. Go into your Mac's system preferences/energy panel and disable drive sleep.
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:21 am

David Nahmani wrote:
grumblepig wrote:
My Sweetwater rep replied to an email from me after I'd gone ahead with the Samsung, but he's suggesting sticking with HDD.

Why??? That's like suggesting to stick with a CRT display monitor. You'll be much happier with the newer, faster, less fragile and generally more reliable SSD with no moving parts.


Well, I had probably an even number of people saying "Definitely go for the M1" and as many saying "No, stick with Intel," so it's just human nature on mixed display. Some people always push for the latest, others hold to the tried and tested etc. Since I've already ordered the Samsung SSD, I'm gonna go for it. Maybe down the line I'll pick up a Glyph for use as a backup drive.
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David Nahmani
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:44 pm

I'm not one to push for the latest and greatest. I mean, look at my signature! No one believes that's what I'm still using today. However SSD for drives is today a no brainer, and M1 look like a solid choice. I wouldn't think twice.
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:41 am

I'm still having the same issue, despite running my audio from a new SSD. To recap - I get a message telling me I've run out of Application Memory and that I need to force quit Logic. This happens even with no other applications open. It's always when I'm in the Editor window, either tweaking MIDI notes or editing audio - applying fades and cleaning up tracks. The issue occurs consistently with certain songs, but I'm not scientist or detective enough to be able to say what's different about those songs. None of the tracks I'm working on have high track counts - usually I'm between 20 and 40. Is Melodyne ever an issue? Or is it possibly an M1 thing with certain plug ins?

I do also have issues opening certain projects, with a message about certain AU plus causing trouble. (Sorry I'm not being more exact - it's early morning and I've had ten crashes and only one coffee!)

Help!
Logic 10.6.1
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triplets
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:52 am

If you have a lot of 3rd party plugins, try running Logic in Rosetta 2 mode and not native.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
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David Nahmani
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:56 am

Also try to see which 3rd party plug-ins may be causing this issue by running sessions without them (for example freezing or better yet bouncing those tracks in place to remove the plug-ins) and see if the issue continues or stops happening?
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grumblepig
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:33 pm

Thanks for these suggestions. I'm new to the Freezing option - will give it a try. Where, meanwhile, would I find Rosetta 2 mode?
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David Nahmani
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Re: Constant crashing while editing...

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:00 pm

grumblepig wrote:
Thanks for these suggestions. I'm new to the Freezing option - will give it a try. Where, meanwhile, would I find Rosetta 2 mode?

See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211907
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