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Post recording CC Automation


DrP

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Hi

First things first.. new member, so Hello. I'm using Logic Pro 10.6.1 on a 2018 i7 Mac mini with 64Gb RAM. Various MIDI controllers used primarily for songwriting and Orchestral composition. Currently using Spitfire BBCSO Core and EW libraries

I have two control surfaces available for controlling CC automation. I have a problem where they work fine when recording, but they refuse to be used for post-recording automation writing or editing. The Learn mode is not working for these parameters either - I used to be able to use the mouse to change the trim of, say, Ch1 modulation and then go to "LogicPro - Control Surfaces - Learn assignment for..." and the CC channel would be there and moving the fader would assign it.. but this seems to just not work for some reason and I can't figure out why..

Any ideas out there?

Thanks

Patrick.

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Hi Patrick! First things first... welcome to the Forum! :) Good to have you here!

If you are staying with us, please include the information on your signature (look at how I have mine as an example) so people can help you in future posts so you don't have to keep saying what you have or people asking you for that same information ;)

 

Thank you!

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Hi. The faders work during recording as mentioned, and I get the dot in the transport when I move them. The hardwire is not the issue here I think.. if I enter Learn mode, and use the mouse to trim the Ch1: modulation level, there is no recognition of this - it just keeps asking for me to identify the controller for the previous recognised command - "Show/Hide Automation" for example. I've tried different MIDI channels. I have attached my controller assignments. Not much to see.

1160988417_Screenshot2021-04-20at11_21_29.thumb.png.7831df3c796e0821a41e1b0d0eb31561.png

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Thanks for your reply @JakobP.. but I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying.. because why would it be listed and selectable as an automation parameter if that’s the case.?. it’s clearly available because you can trim it using the mouse.. also, that would mean that you would have to re-record everything from scratch if you hadn’t quite nailed the mod changes.. Apologies but I think it’s me not quite understanding your reply..
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Ok.. so while in think I see what you’re saying.. what’s the answer to editing or re-recording CC info? There has to be a way - it’s a pretty basic requirement for most composers I should think.. CC1 and CC11 must be the most used of all.. and I am a two handed player so need to able to add CC automation after recording..
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You record it as you record other midi, press record and move your modwheel ? You can even record several takes into a take folder and select the best take. You already seem to know how to edit it in the tracks area, it's also possible to do it in the piano roll...

I believe what DrP is after is a way to record MIDI CC such as modulation like you would automation: using Touch or Latch, being able to record over an existing recording (without overwriting MIDI notes), or re-record only sections of MIDI CC, overwriting the corresponding existing MIDI CC but nothing before you're actually moving the mod wheel, etc.

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Yes.. so the scenario is this.. I am sketching out a string section part.. both hands on the keyboard so I can’t add the expression and dynamics provided my CC1 and CC11 as I would for a solo part.. In a normal world I would go back to the start, switch from Read to Touch, press Play and write the MIDI CC info using two faders that have been assigned to those parameters. I used to do that by using the Learn function, but that does not seem to allow me to assign CC1 or CC11 (I haven’t yet tried others) to my faders.. Whenever I enter the Learn mode, it is asking me to assign a control to the previously executed step .. is it possible to attach a video here? It would be easier to show than try to explain I think..:-)
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Try this: Select your strings track and from the main menu go Track>Other>New Track With Same Instrument. You now have a separate track you can record the modulation (or any midi) to, and it will effect the strings instrument on the "notes track". If you setup to record to take folders in recording preferences, you then can choose between your modulation performances...
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Yes.. so the scenario is this.. I am sketching out a string section part.. both hands on the keyboard so I can’t add the expression and dynamics provided my CC1 and CC11 as I would for a solo part.. In a normal world I would go back to the start, switch from Read to Touch, press Play and write the MIDI CC info using two faders that have been assigned to those parameters. I used to do that by using the Learn function, but that does not seem to allow me to assign CC1 or CC11 (I haven’t yet tried others) to my faders.. Whenever I enter the Learn mode, it is asking me to assign a control to the previously executed step .. is it possible to attach a video here? It would be easier to show than try to explain I think..:-)

To attach a video here, you have to host the video on YouTube, then you can embed it to your post with the little YouTube "Play" icon button at the top of the post field.

 

But you explained it very clearly, I know exactly what you're talking about. However MIDI CC just does not behave like automation, they are two different things. Automation is a system using Touch, Latch and Read modes to record variations of a Mixer or Plug-in Parameter during playback directly on a track in Logic, whereas MIDI CC is MIDI data that can be recorded in Record mode inside a MIDI region like any other MIDI data (such as the notes you play on a MIDI controller), which in turn can be interpreted by the Mixer or a plug-in like data to "automate" a parameter.

 

Back to your workflow: you could record your notes, then choose Track > Other > New Track With Same Instrument, and now record your MIDI CC#1 (modulation wheel) performance onto that new track while listening to the notes on the previous track. Once done, you can select both regions (the one that contains the note and the one that contains MIDI CC#1) and choose Edit > Bounce and Join > Join (or press Command-J) to join them.

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Many thanks everyone. I understand what you're saying and am now able to achieve what I need to do, I still don't fully understand how CC and automation coexist and why, if MIDI CC cannot be programmed as automation, the CC channels are made available to select there.. makes no sense to me.
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Many thanks everyone. I understand what you're saying and am now able to achieve what I need to do, I still don't fully understand how CC and automation coexist and why, if MIDI CC cannot be programmed as automation, the CC channels are made available to select there.. makes no sense to me.

It's Apple's effort to unify techniques into one seamless interface. To make it easy for the user to use one or the other even if they don't behave exactly the same way. But it does make sense that both are used to "automate" parameters in the sense that you record the way a parameter evolves in time.

 

If you're going to draw an automation curve then they do behave the same, or almost the same. You can draw a MIDI CC curve the same way you would automation. So it makes the sense that it's easy enough to switch from automating, say the filter cutoff of your horn samples to make them sound brighter during a fortissimo, while quickly switching to editing a MIDI Expression curve to make them louder at the same location. Rather than have to do the cutoff in an automation lane in the Tracks area then have to open a MIDI editor like the PIano Roll, open the Hyper Draw area at the bottom of the Piano Roll, and make sure you're looking at the same location before you can get to work on the MIDI Expression (that's the only way it used to be possible to do that before Apple unified the workflow).

 

But in the meantime, the way automation and MIDI CC are assigned to your controllers and recorded, and sometimes even the way they're played back, are all vastly different.

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I recently purchased a Korg NanoKontrol2 specifically to add CC1 and CC11 data after recording. Once I assigned the 2 faders using Korg's editor software I was able to write the cc data to selected regions. That cc data can then be edited in the piano roll editor, if necessary. It was all pleasantly painless.

 

Is this what you are looking to accomplish?

 

Jim

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Hi Jim

Yes.. That’s it.. I am good now.. It was my misunderstanding about how CC works vs Automation.. I can recommend the Nakedboards MC-8.. longer throw faders.. if you can wait for it to come from Russia :)

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