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prestomusic
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Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:27 pm

I recently updated from Logic 9 to 10.6 and am in the process of setting up key commands.

In Logic 9 "esc" opened the tool menu and then pressing numbers 1 through 0 selected the various tools. Example, "Esc" then "1" would select the pointer tool.

I've updated the key command so that "esc" opens the tool selection menu in 10.6, but once the tool menu is opened, there are now letters assigned for tool selection. I want to reassign the numbers 1 through 0 to the tools rather than the existing letters. Note that this is for when the esc has already opened the tool menu. I've tried to work this out with no luck.

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
 
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David Nahmani
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:35 am

Yes, all these key commands can be customized: choose Logic Pro > Key Commands > Edit and look for the Tools menu key commands:

Tools Menu key commands.png
Tools Menu key commands.png (26.03 KiB) Viewed 710 times


Tools menu.png
Tools menu.png (19.05 KiB) Viewed 710 times
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prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:51 pm

Thanks so much for the response David.

Nothing shows up when searching "tools menu" in the Key Commands window. Only one item shows up when searching "tool menu" and that is "show tool menu" which I have already assigned as required. I can't see how to get that menu to show up like your screenshot with all of the tools displaying. I can find individual tools, but not that menu.

(I do have screenshots but can't see how to easily attach those. Do screenshots have to be hosted elsewhere and liked to? I can only see adding images using the image url tags option)
 
gacki
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:03 pm

You can add screenshots as attachments and then place them inline.
 
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David Nahmani
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:43 am

prestomusic wrote:
Nothing shows up when searching "tools menu" in the Key Commands window. Only one item shows up when searching "tool menu" and that is "show tool menu" which I have already assigned as required. I can't see how to get that menu to show up like your screenshot with all of the tools displaying. I can find individual tools, but not that menu.

Yes, the search field in the Key Command window searches for key command names, but not categories. Option-click the little ">" symbol in front of any of the categories to close all those folders and you'll find the Tools menu category at the bottom:

Tools menu.png
Tools menu.png (78.98 KiB) Viewed 648 times


prestomusic wrote:
(I do have screenshots but can't see how to easily attach those. Do screenshots have to be hosted elsewhere and liked to? I can only see adding images using the image url tags option)

How to attach files to your post
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prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:57 pm

OK, got it. Thanks for your help.
 
prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:16 pm

One other thing please... The pointer tool is in the actual Tools Menu, but it does not show up as configurable in the Key Commands window under Tools Menu, see attached. This seems odd. Basically I wan to get Pointer assigned to 1, rather than ESC, in the Tools Menu, but can't work it out.

Pointer is in the actual tools menu
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.03.44 pm.png
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.03.44 pm.png (352.47 KiB) Viewed 531 times


But, no "Pointer Tool" in the Tools Menu Key Commands window...
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.06.30 pm.png
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.06.30 pm.png (917.81 KiB) Viewed 531 times


When I search for "pointer" I only get an option for Various Windows, not Tools Menu.
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.10.20 pm.png
Screen Shot 2021-04-27 at 2.10.20 pm.png (748.37 KiB) Viewed 531 times
 
gacki
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:27 pm

prestomusic wrote:
One other thing please... The pointer tool is in the actual Tools Menu, but it does not show up as configurable in the Key Commands window under Tools Menu, see attached. This seems odd.


While I understand that there might be certain use cases for this (eye tracker?) I don't think this is really much of an an issue.
The Tools Menu always opens so that the pointer is directly over the Pointer tool. Which means the Pointer tool is reached by the key command for the Tools menu itself + click; and that's why it shows up as "Escape" in your screenshot. So for pretty much all normal cases there simply is no need for an additional key command here.
 
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:51 pm

I agree, Gacki.

Consider that the Show Tool Menu key command is, actually, "Show Tool Menu (or select Pointer Tool when Tool Menu is open)". The point of this behavior (which mimics the earlier Logic versions behaviors) is that no matter what tool is currently selected, you can always quickly go back to a Pointer tool by pressing the same key (T by default, esc in your case) twice in rapid succession.
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prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Wed May 05, 2021 5:18 pm

gacki wrote:
prestomusic wrote:
One other thing please... The pointer tool is in the actual Tools Menu, but it does not show up as configurable in the Key Commands window under Tools Menu, see attached. This seems odd.


While I understand that there might be certain use cases for this (eye tracker?) I don't think this is really much of an an issue.
The Tools Menu always opens so that the pointer is directly over the Pointer tool. Which means the Pointer tool is reached by the key command for the Tools menu itself + click; and that's why it shows up as "Escape" in your screenshot. So for pretty much all normal cases there simply is no need for an additional key command here.


Thanks so much mate for sharing with us that you don't see this to be much of an issue! :lol:

I'm aware of how to select the tool. This discussion is about assigning key commands. Thanks, but I'm not here to argue my use case with you.
Last edited by prestomusic on Wed May 05, 2021 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Wed May 05, 2021 5:34 pm

David Nahmani wrote:
I agree, Gacki.

Consider that the Show Tool Menu key command is, actually, "Show Tool Menu (or select Pointer Tool when Tool Menu is open)". The point of this behavior (which mimics the earlier Logic versions behaviors) is that no matter what tool is currently selected, you can always quickly go back to a Pointer tool by pressing the same key (T by default, esc in your case) twice in rapid succession.


Hey David, yep I understand the other options, thanks.

But that doesn't explain by this is not configurable, all of the others are. I'm not sure what you mean by "previous version", but as I said I'm coming form Logic 9 and dealing with 10(?) years or so of habit and muscle memory. I don't want to learn another way to do it, though it looks like I will. 8-) The way the tools were organised in Logic 9 tools menu worked just fine for me, regardless of the other shortcut options available in 10.6.

It if can't be done, that's fine, but I stand by my comment that it's a bit odd, as the whole point of configurable key commands is that they are user assignable. Why would there be an "anti-use" case for not allowing "select pointer from tools menu" to be configurable? I can only assume that it's an oversight in the programming, as there are literally hundreds and hundreds of obscure and likely rarely user Logic functions that can be freely assigned as key commands.

Cheers,
 
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Thu May 06, 2021 12:05 am

prestomusic wrote:
But that doesn't explain by this is not configurable, all of the others are.

Indeed you cannot configure it separately from Show Tool Menu as all of the others. So if you want 1 to select the Pointer tool inside the tool menu then you have to set Show Tool Menu to 1.

prestomusic wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "previous version", but as I said I'm coming form Logic 9

I started with Logic 4, then 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, so I was thinking about all Logic versions leading up to now (except for a few early Logic 10 versions where they tried to change the behavior and it wasn't configurable in the same way).

In Logic 9 and prior versions, I pressed esc to open the tool menu, then I press esc choose the pointer tool. So just "esc - esc" would reset the pointer tool for me. In Logic X that became "T - T", but I can still assign it to "esc - esc" as seems to be the case for you (on your screenshot). I didn't remember you could also use the "1" key to select the Pointer in the tool menu.

But why open the tool menu at all? What if you assign the key command Set Pointer Tool to 1, then you access your Pointer tool directly by pressing 1 (without opening the Tool Menu)?
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Thu May 06, 2021 2:39 pm

You might want to remove the assignment of the "1" key which is used for 'Recall Screenset 1'
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prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Sat May 08, 2021 4:30 pm

David Nahmani wrote:
But why open the tool menu at all? What if you assign the key command Set Pointer Tool to 1, then you access your Pointer tool directly by pressing 1 (without opening the Tool Menu)?


Like I already said it's 10 years or so of habit, why change what works?
 
prestomusic
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Sat May 08, 2021 4:31 pm

facej wrote:
You might want to remove the assignment of the "1" key which is used for 'Recall Screenset 1'


Thanks for the idea, I already tried that but it didn't have the desired result, unfortunately.

Cheers,
 
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Re: Assign tool selection key commands to "ESC" tool menu

Sun May 09, 2021 1:17 am

prestomusic wrote:
Like I already said it's 10 years or so of habit, why change what works?

I understand. And I suppose this may have been a rhetorical question, but if you or someone else is interested in why they did this, here it goes.

It used to work like that:

1. Show Tool Menu = Escape.
2. Inside Tool Menu = 1, 2, 3 etc... to open each tool (not customizable).

Because the most often used tool is the Pointer tool and most people constantly have to switch back to the Pointer tool, they made it easy by allowing you to use the Escape key to select the Pointer tool. When you wanted to switch back to the Pointer tool, you could press Escape twice rapidly, done.

Many users complained that using numbers wasn't easy to memorize (which number is Eraser tool?). Many users also pointed out they wish they could customize the same key commands as they use in other apps. So they created new customizable key commands to select the tools inside the tool menu. And they chose more memorable defaults - while keeping the idea of pressing the Show Tool Menu key command twice:

1. Show Tool Menu = T.
2. Inside Tool Menu = T (Pointer), P (Pencil), E (Eraser), etc.

They made the key commands customizable except for the Pointer Tool since that one is already accessed as Show Menu Tool (P). In the process the "1" functionality to select the Pointer Tool was lost without the ability to customize it back in.

Now I understand that doesn't suit your workflow, and maybe you're not alone, so if enough users request an independent customizable "Pointer Tool" key command, maybe they'll do it? https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html
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