Ploki wrote:hans zimmer uses Cubase and cubase doesn't have that feature.
as i said, if you feel like that is A MUST look into Digital Performer and "Chunks"
AllTheButtons wrote:Ploki wrote:hans zimmer uses Cubase and cubase doesn't have that feature.
Hans also has an army of people to do the boring stuff, to be fair
Dewdman42 wrote:twistie, none of the other DAW's do what you are wishing for anyway, don't worry about it.
Dewdman42 wrote:twistie, none of the other DAW's do what you are wishing for anyway, don't worry about it. What you're asking for is a good idea, I agree with you; but its just that not many people would need it or use it and they have other ways to spend their time in development with bigger returns; not to mention that software devs often do not entirely understand the nuances of what musicians are doing...particularly a specialized area such as this, they understand it enough to get it 75% right... So there is just a gap there...and I don't expect it to ever be filled...on that I agree with David..I don't particularly think the whole guts of LogicPro would have to change for this. (it might in order to support a chunks type of feature, but that is a seperate topic).
This discussion has motivated me to make some notes about what *I* would do if I were going to make a tool for tempo mapping..and I might try to whip some kind of script together or something that won't be as nice as it would be built into LogicPro...but at least might handle the tempo mapping. But the problem is that in order to go back and fix an existing LogicPro project that already has music..and adapt it for a new tempo map because the film director is feeling creative about edits...that's the part where it gets really difficult...as you know..and where it would be SOOO helpful if LogicPro could help make that process easier. I personally love the idea of "snapping" certain markers to grid lines...where the tempos (and meters) will be adjusted to make the snap happen. I personally would find that useful, but I also think most non-film-score. musicians would have no use for it whatsoever...so... I just doubt it will happen.
Also...truthfully...Any type you get some edits like that...and you have to move some smpte markers around...there are always going to be different ways you could approach remapping the tempo map...there will be half a dozen decent tempo choices that could be applied....different meter choices, you may go back and change the meter earlier to one consistent meter instead of just inserting one bar of 5/4 for example. There are creative choices that most likely a film composer will still need to make. So LogicPro would need to have a clean and elegant way to present some of those choices and give you the opportunity to choose or specify...it would probably be more involved then simply answer "yes" to "do you want a bar of 5/4 inserted".
But... I also think LogicPro, or any other DAW, could be at least aware of that creative process and provide tools that make it more brainless and easier to zip through that process....using your creativity to decide...rather then having to go manually insert meter changes and tempo changes until you visually see the markers line up with the grid through trial error. That is what we have to do now and its very time consuming I agree. There is a solution out there, but I just don't think any of the DAW's are going to add it.
Probably a more reasonable expectation would be to ask Apple to provide a cleaner way to import tempo maps to an existing project...overwriting the old tempo map without overwriting any midi and while not having to start a new project to do it. Then you could use other tools to rework the tempo map and just slide the tempo map into LogicPro on top of existing music...and then adjust your music as needed to the new tempo map.
Dewdman42 wrote:Digital Performer doesn't do that. Sorry. I have listed off already what DP can do.
ps - if it does do that and I need to know how, please share your info.
Dewdman42 wrote:You’re talking about two separate cues that are not musically related. The op is asking about edits within a single musical cue.
Also according to ABB’s article, when you layout chunks into a “song” the meters are in each chunk but the tempo is at the song level. I fail to see a workflow that solves the op’s request.
The only thing a chunk can do is have its start time locked to a smpte frame so at least that starting point will be bar beat 1:1 and locked to smpte but everything after will need to ne adjusted again and if the director brings edits in the middle of a musical cue then tempos may have to adjusted before and after the edit to make it all work. Chunks don’t handle any of that which is what he was asking about.
Dewdman42 wrote:I think if you are trying to make multiple cues follow one continuous tempo track that is not multiple cues. That is one long cue with sections at different tempo. Because of the continuous tempo that is one single musical “thing”, call it a cue or don’t but the same problem exists as if it were one cue.
I think with or without dp you are going to run into challenges when the film comes back with edits in the middle of a single tempo track.
Again i reccomend you break things up into separate projects in logicpro, as cues, whenever there is a break that is long enough or sometimes even if there is no break at all. But still that will not provide any help to the challenge of video edits in the middle of a tempo map. Breaking it into separate cues only helps a little bit insomuch that each cue starts at barbeat 1:1 with its own tempo map. You can lock that position. If video edits come at those transitions or in between cues then it should be pretty easy to adjust. The video post editor can do it! If a video edit comes in the middle of any tempo map then it’s a challenge for you. It will be in dp also, dp just let’s you put all the cues in one file but each cue ( or chunk ) still has to follow a master tempo track if done that way, so there could still be some issues there actually.
But it may be easier in DP to export the stems of each cue from one project or even assemble those exported audio stems into a master sequence of the whole film, etc. Directors are generally accustomed to identifying sections of video where each cue will go identified by start and end smpte times. The composer composes each cue to that. The audio of each cue can be assembled directly to the video by a video post editor and these days they can even use audio stretching and other tricks to make it fit if they decided to edit the video last minute. Sometimes. generally a dialog should happen between director and composer such that they realize if they edit the video in the middle of an identified cue at the last minute, it will take the composer some time to remap the tempo map of that cue and possibly have to recompose some new music to fit it. If you have a ten minute film all as one huge cue then that would be very problematic dealing with those changes. Separate identified cues reduces those last minute changes to only when they happen in the middle of a cue