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fuzzfilth
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:43 am

I too have the scars to show from fighting my way through bizarre sysex implementations and/or even more bizarre documentations thereof, in the sometimes surprisingly successful attempt of making all machines play nicely together.

But yeah, just as things have been much simplified in the past three decades by pulling everything together into ever more powerful computers, the need for sysex extravaganza has pretty much vanished here.
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gacki
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:02 pm

des99 wrote:
CZ-101 (a device which has one of the most bizarre sysex implementations I've ever seen...)

Ain't that the truth! If my memory doesn't fail me it had different dumps for sending and receiving data.

Behringer, not to be outdone, managed to do something similar with the xTouch mini as well, but even worse: The requests are comparatively well formatted; but the dumps contain a wrong manufacturer ID (Kawai instead of Behringer). They probably thought: Why bother, no one is going to see this anyway...

BTW, I did (among others) the CZ and VZ modules in SoundDiver.

At the moment I'm trying to approach this from "the other side": implementing SysEx in the firmware of a groovebox-like hardware device.
 
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des99
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 pm

gacki wrote:
des99 wrote:
CZ-101 (a device which has one of the most bizarre sysex implementations I've ever seen...)

Ain't that the truth! If my memory doesn't fail me it had different dumps for sending and receiving data.


Handshakes without terminating sysex strings with F7, sending raw bytes as handshakes, reverse nibble encoding for parameters, some weird non-linear envelope scalling parameters, and many more. Seriously, those Casio engineers were drinking *way* too much sake when designing that one!

gacki wrote:
Behringer, not to be outdone, managed to do something similar with the xTouch mini as well, but even worse: The requests are comparatively well formatted; but the dumps contain a wrong manufacturer ID (Kawai instead of Behringer). They probably thought: Why bother, no one is going to see this anyway...


Hehe. We could write a fun blog for nerds with sysex implementation & documentation crimes. We'd get at least ten people who'd really love it! ;)

gacki wrote:
BTW, I did (among others) the CZ and VZ modules in SoundDiver.


Ah - you must be Malte! (I had a feeling that was you from your forum name.)
Yes, I remember your stuff well!

Nice! I made my own adaption for the CZ-101 before the Universal Module supported the non-standard formats (took a bit of ingenuity that one!), so that would have been before your official module was available, probably in SD 1.x. Ah, remember the days of the SoundDiverBox? ;)
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Reddington
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:18 am

David Nahmani wrote:
Well for some reason your MIDI keyboard must have sent it. Most likely not a big deal, nothing to worry about, I would just delete it to clean up the MIDI region.

Yeah as long as it doesn't do something weird with the actual sound, I'm ok with it.
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:24 am

You're welcome! :)
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gacki
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:50 pm

des99 wrote:
Handshakes without terminating sysex strings with F7, sending raw bytes as handshakes, reverse nibble encoding for parameters, some weird non-linear envelope scalling parameters, and many more. Seriously, those Casio engineers were drinking *way* too much sake when designing that one!


So it's worse than I remembered.
But I'm fully willing to cut the Casio engineers some slack. Many devices from the early MIDI days were notoriously buggy so they weren't the only ones.
The missing F7 can also be found with the Prophet 5 (and interestingly is basically incompatible with one of my MIDI interfaces while another one can handle it). Early Prophet 600 firmware didn't know Note On with velocity 0. I think I once laid hands on a DX7 sending aftertouch as Controller 6.
But one of my favorites was one of the Crumar synths (can't recall if it was the Bit 01 or Bit One): "We only send Note data, so let's send a dummy Note status byte on powerup and from then on only data bytes forever." Good luck using this behind a MIDI patch bay or something similar...

des99 wrote:
Hehe. We could write a fun blog for nerds with sysex implementation & documentation crimes. We'd get at least ten people who'd really love it! ;)


Now you're being overly optimistic.

des99 wrote:
Ah - you must be Malte! (I had a feeling that was you from your forum name.)

Busted.

des99 wrote:
Nice! I made my own adaption for the CZ-101 before the Universal Module supported the non-standard formats (took a bit of ingenuity that one!), so that would have been before your official module was available, probably in SD 1.x. Ah, remember the days of the SoundDiverBox? ;)


Ah, the FirstClass software with dialup...

It was a great time. With the benefit of hindsight though it was obvious that things were coming to an end for this type of software. The devices were becoming smaller and smaller (half-rack modules...) which of course meant they became less and less editable from their front panels. At the same time they became less "hardware" and more "software" anyway so it was somewhat natural to move them into plugins with a real user interface instead once processing power was sufficient.
Still, I have fond memories. During the first lockdown last year I dug out my old SoundDiver installation CD and installed it on an old MacOS 9 machine. This brought back a lot of things (and it actually helped me restore the presets to an old Lexicon LXP-1).
 
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des99
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Re: "xx" meaning in MIDI track

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:11 pm

I had to do the same - as my old CZ patches were in that proprietary CZ adaption I wrote, so I had to find backups of my old Atari system (which is a story in itself), find that custom CZ adaption I wrote, get that working in a more recent version of SD (I no longer have my Atari ST), then retrieve and convert those patches into standard sysex.

I also found a bunch of patches in another Atari CZ software, and for that I had to reverse engineer the file format to convert those back out into standard sysex to get them back, as the Mac Atari ST emulators at the time did not support any MIDI output - all good fun!

It's a shame SD was killed though - it wasn't actually owned my emagic, just distributed by them, so Apple didn't buy it and kill it - it was effectively killed by Michael going to Apple in the buyout, because Apple developer employees can't make and distribute other software products in the terms of employment...

It was still the best app of it's type, and I still find it useful to manage, convert and help work on sysex conversion tools etc...

Anyway - nice to have you around!
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