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Exported track doesn't keep sends and effects


Breenfactor

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Hello, guys

 

I have just noticed a pretty annoying issue that happens when exporting a MIDI track as audio file.

I sent a MIDI track to a bus with a delay and when exported, the audio track doesn't have the effect. It's just the raw midi.

I also put the track into a track stack and automated the main one, like toggling on and off an effect or automating the volume but that also isn't kept when the track is exported.

I tried both bypass effect and don't bypass effect but the outcome is always the same.

 

Anybody knows why?

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I tried but it doesn't keep the audio effects. I would like the audio to have all the effects and sends recorded into the exported track. When I play the exported track outside Logic it's just the raw Kontakt instrument without all the stuff I did in the project, sends and effects.
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I did both.

Let's start from the beginning, I am afraid I wasn't really able to explain the issue I am having in the best way haha.

So, I use a composing template and then I export all the tracks as audio to load them into my mixing template.

The thing is, if I wanna use some sends and effects in the composing stage, to shape the sound of each instrument to my liking. But when I bounce the midi tracks ad audio, or when I export them, all those effects, sends and stuff are just missing. The audio I get is the raw sound of the Kontakt instrument.

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So, if I have a send from a midi track to a reverb, said reverb won't be included in the bounce?

For the effects to be included they must be all INSERT?

 

Also, what about automations? Will they be included in the bounce?

 

Also, for achieving what I was looking for, will BOUNCE the only method that will work? What's the point of EXPORT, then?

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So, if I have a send from a midi track to a reverb, said reverb won't be included in the bounce?

For the effects to be included they must be all INSERT?

 

No, solo the track that has the send and the bounce will include the aux as well.

 

Also, what about automations? Will they be included in the bounce?

 

Yes.

 

Also, for achieving what I was looking for, will BOUNCE the only method that will work?

 

Yes for including the auxes.

 

What's the point of EXPORT, then?

 

To have the raw tracks of a mix.

Sometimes people will bounce all individual tracks and they include all the effects for somebody else to mix.

When a professional mixer does his/her job he wants the raw tracks with no reverb and delays, which makes life much easier when you wanna do your version of a mix.

Does that make sense?

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Ok, that certainly makes sense.

I understood everything you explained to me.

Still, I noticed that with bounce my effects are not included. Do I have to solo the MIDI track and also the AUX one with the effect in it? Do I have to use Bounce In Place function or another Bounce function found in the FILE scroll-down menu?

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I hear them.

I can only obtain the full effected track if I bounce "section or project" like you suggested (cmd+B).

If I bounce in place, the signal stays dry no matter what, but it's processed just because after the bounce it still retains the original sends. I thought there could be a quicker, more reliable method.

But for now, soloing and bouncing seems to have worked.

 

Could I do it for multiple tracks and have each single track bounced separately simultaneously? Or should I do it manually for each single track in my project?

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Maybe a 'Bounce and Replace All Tracks' will get you closer. All tracks (especially summing stacks) get processed as well as all of the 'Send' tracks - make sure you create a track for each of your send effects.

 

Once you have done this you can work with tracks, or stems (summed tracks) along with the audio from the sends. Solo the sums and the send tracks (or mute the tracks that are summed) and you get a full, reproducible recording.

 

If a reverb, delay, or other effect belongs on a track use an insert. If the reverb belongs on a summed group like "Strings" insert the reverb on the summing stack.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me to try and use one reverb send for "some" of the tracks when you want to create independent tracks.

 

As pointed out earlier, a mixer probably doesn't want your tracks with reverb printed in to them...print the reverb as a reference.

 

It's really easy to do.

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I noticed that when I BIP a MIDI track contained into a summing stack, it doesn't keep the effects that are inserted into the summing stack track. That's what's driving me mad.

If I insert an effect directly on the single track it retains the effect after bounced, which is fine, but if I want to apply an effect to all tracks belonging to a sum, inserting it into the main summing stack track, after bouncing the single track it doesn't keep said effects.

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The rule to this is very simple:

 

You get the sound at the point you bounce/export. So if you export a track, only effects present in that track (ie inserts) will end up in the file. If you bounce a track stack, all effects going to that track stack including its inserts will be included. If you bounce the stereo out, all tracks and effects meeting there will be included.

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You get the sound at the point you bounce/export.

Indeed, you have to understand that you're not bouncing a "track", you're bouncing an audio signal at a certain point in the signal flow. This is also what dictates the format (mono or stereo) of the bounced file, which is often another source of confusion (and explains why in many cases, a mono track yields a stereo file).

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Ok, I definitely see what you mean. However, I find it pretty confusing to be honest on Logic’s side.

 

But now the thing is, how can I be able to bounce/export single MIDI tracks from my composing template as audio files to import into my mixing template retaining all the effects that were used in the composition step, both inserts on a single track and inserts on the summing stack? And also sends from those tracks to busses?

 

That’s gonna be crucial to be able to separate my composing and my mixing, as all I want to be able to do is to have the exact same “processed sounds” developed inside the mixing project as the bounced audio ready to be used into in my mixing project.

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are YOU doing the mixing? i mean... why not just mix from the original project? if you're sending the files to someone else, make a 'reference' file (ie a bounce of a part WITH the effect you like), and label it clearly (ie 'reference') to show what you want.

 

but if you're doing your own mixing, what would be the point of all this? if you work from your original project, you retain control of every single element (a midi part, the sound you use, the eq, the effects)....

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EDIT: Fisherking beat me to the line, again. Anyway, since it's typed already...

 

The ever more important question is why you don't mix in the original project right away.

 

I see no point in painstakingly dissecting a project into bits and pieces, possibly lose tempo and signature maps on the way, only to tediously assemble everything again so I finally can carry on where I left off yesterday.

 

Usually folks justify a separate mix project with better focus on the mix phase instead of endless tweaking of notes. However, I'm not sure I'd trade that in for endless exporting and importing, and either losing all fx or having to rebuild or import these too.

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EDIT: Fisherking beat me to the line, again. Anyway, since it's typed already...

 

The ever more important question is why you don't mix in the original project right away.

 

I see no point in painstakingly dissecting a project into bits and pieces, possibly lose tempo and signature maps on the way, only to tediously assemble everything again so I finally can carry on where I left off yesterday.

 

Usually folks justify a separate mix project with better focus on the mix phase instead of endless tweaking of notes. However, I'm not sure I'd trade that in for endless exporting and importing, and either losing all fx or having to rebuild or import these too.

 

i got there first because of the time zone :mrgreen:

 

there's nothing like doing a mix, and suddenly trying a different synth sound, or changing a note, or trying a different snare drum. having everything accessible and editable up to the very-last second is one of the great joys of working in a DAW (and using midi synths, etc).

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Yes, I'll start pointing out that I do my own composing/mixing and mastering. No need for me to send the stems or single tracks to another person.

 

I've always thought of a separate mixing project as an "excuse" to be more focused to that particular phase. Also, I've always thought it would be important to have the midi composition part separated from the mixing/mastering as you can always bring that particular project back in the future for occasional changes.

But it has to be said that I am still trying to figure out what could be the best workflow for me, so I am definitely open to suggestions from you guys.

What would it be in your opinion the best workflow for someone who composes mainly music for films and does his own mixing and mastering?

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i cannot see the benefit of exporting everything to audio, starting a new project, then mixing. you have control over everything in your original project; what's the benefit of exporting everything?

 

and since you can't seem to get it where you want it (in terms of exporting), why not just mix your project? you could cut your workload in half, and, again, have anything and everything easily amendable, changeable...

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Ok, I am starting to think about working in the same project.

Still, I would like to know what are your thoughts about my possible workflow.

 

I would start using summing stacks for each "type" of instrument (Strings, Brass, Synths and so on);

I would then compose the midi parts, maybe doing a little mix of each group or maybe leaving them all dry, it depends;

Once I am done and satisfied with the composing, I'd start with the mixing phase, and I would like to have audio files of those midi parts of course, as they don't consume power, as opposed to their MIDI counterparts, and they are "safer" to work with than MIDI. Which steps should I follow?

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As mentioned, if you rather have audio to mix, freeze the MIDI tracks. Now you have audio tracks to mix. No need to manually make things more complicated, they tend to take care of that themselves...

 

Also, and this is where worlds may collide, why do you think of composition and mixing as such polar opposite things that they mustn't get near each other ? A classical composer hears the oboe in his head dry or wet ?

 

If we keep talking orchestral for a second, there ideally is nothing to mix, because all busses, groups, stems and reverbs are set up properly already and all you do is compose/play into that bag. Once your last expression line is drawn to your liking, this it the final sound. Done. Bounce the Stereo Out and move on, only 25 more cues to go.

Edited by fuzzfilth
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are you having issues running midi as midi? if not, not sure why you can't mix what you have. if the project plays, what is it in mixing that would compromise that?

 

seems (to me!) that you're overthinking this. TRY it; mix a project 'as is', and, if you're encountering issues, come back to this thread (or start a new one).

 

scoring or pop music (or whatever), i always mix from the 'live' project. what you could consider, if you do your own mastering... bounce out a finished mix, then open THAT in a new logic project... and master away (i do this in ozone, fwiw).

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I want to mix using audio instead of MIDI because the latter takes lots of cpu power to playback, whereas an audio track does almost need no power.

So you say freezing should be enough? I also noticed that if I wanna BIP several MIDI regions inside a track it doesn't work as expected, bouncing only the very first region. Should I join all the region then for it to work? But doing so I will lose the region separation I want for the composition part. It's important for me to have several parts of the track divided from others.

 

Another thing, related to what Fisher was saying: following the reasoning of doing the work in just one project, could I also MASTER the cue in the same project? I mean, I would have a mixbus where all the stems are routed to, then said mixbus would be routed to a mastering one, with all the plugins I need on it (Linear Phase EQ, Multiband Compressor, Vitamin, Kramer Tape, Limiter, etc..).

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lots of people master their mixes 'live' in the original project, as you've suggested. but again, regardless of how much cpu live midi takes... are you, in fact, having playback issues? some things that help reduce cpu load and ram usage: reboot. open ONLY logic, and the project you want to work on (be sure no apps are set to open on startup/reboot).

 

anyway, just wondering if you're having an issue, or just anticipating possibly having an issue. why not try mixing/mastering a 'live' project? then go from there...

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