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Real-time bounce v off-line bounce


GregManning
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Hi,

 

I just tried to null two identical mixes with full plugin compensation. One was done in real-time, the other an off-line bounce. They didn’t null when one got phase reversed. The off-line bounce seems to be delayed by about 3 clicks. Why?

 

I’m using UAD Apollo x8.

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is one mix, in some way, better than the other? otherwise, it's (probably) just the process itself, and nothing to worry about.

 

in all these years, i've only done 2 or 3 real-time bounces (and only because a sustain pedal event only 'triggered' in real-time, and one odd synth did it's 'morphing' thing better in real time).

 

if it sounds fine, it is fine...

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i don't get it. if you send them a real-time bounced track, that's their reference point. if you send an offline bounced track, that's the reference point. in what situation is a comparison necessary?

 

EDIT: seriously, has anyone anywhere ever said "i can't use this mix, it's 3 clicks off from where i expected it to be"... :shock:

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Not sure where the delay thing comes in, but I watched a video from present day production (can’t find it now), where they mentioned that many plugins have a slight randomness in there response to make them sound more analog. Just a small amount. Not enough to be able to hear it on and A/B listening, but enough for them not to pass a null test
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i don't get it. if you send them a real-time bounced track, that's their reference point. if you send an offline bounced track, that's the reference point. in what situation is a comparison necessary?

 

EDIT: seriously, has anyone anywhere ever said "i can't use this mix, it's 3 clicks off from where i expected it to be"... :shock:

If I bounce a new mix of track fixed under a video, expecting to just replace it in the video editor, it kind of makes a difference whether the start point is identical or not.

 

Same if I bounce for any synced-up production playback.

 

I’d have had no idea what was going on.

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  • Solution

There certainly is some "weirdness" in real time playback; not sure if that also translates to real time bounces.

It feels to me as if the internal MIDI engine needs some "settling time". I actually had prepared an example song and wanted to ask about this (in the sense of "how phase stable is Logic"); however I wanted to test this further.

 

Short description of the things I have observed: I created an Ultrabeat region with four Rim clicks, then I did a "bounce in place" of that region and phase reversed the audio track. In theory those two tracks (Ultrabeat and Audio) should null. And they actually do this but only if there is enough "pre-roll" before them. Placing them at measure 2 and starting from the beginning results in dead quiet. Starting from anywhere between measure 1 and measure 2 gives varying comb filter effects; so does moving the regions gradually towards the start.

This was tested on two different computers with different interfaces and buffer settings (Logic 10.5.1).

 

I'm still in the "requires more research" phase here but it appears to me that real time playback can have some small glitches. Not sure if that translates to real time bounces as well and how much offline bounce differ from this.

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