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Danny Wyatt
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Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:47 am

Since the first days of using Logic back in 2007 I've always thought this feature makes no sense, because it has no purpose on working like this and in fact creates a broken workflow. That is:

Let's say I have a channel strip with an EQ, then a Compressor and then a Limiter. If I'm mixing a song and I have all of those windows open so I can work on everything at the same time on multiple open windows, if by any chance I decide to add a Gain plugin BEFORE the EQ, now all my open windows change, creating a visual mess. Now my workflow is broken and I need to open the plugin that eventually disappeared and reorder all the windows again.

Is this still working this way after 10.4.6?
I honestly don't understand how Apple thought this was a good workflow and what the purpose was...

I mean, if I add a new plugin, all the open windows should remain open and in place and it should only open the new plugin's window, if that option is selected (to open a new plugin on insertion)
• Logic Pro X 10.4.6 • M-Audio Fast Track Pro 4x4
• MacBook Pro mid 2010 • macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 • 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 • 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

-----------------------------------------
Danny Wyatt (formerly known as 3ple) - Musician and Music Producer
http://www.iamdannywyatt.com (links to all my social media included)
 
JakobP
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Re: Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:01 am

Danny Wyatt wrote:
... now all my open windows change, creating a visual mess....

Could you share a screenshot or two ?
Logic Pro 10.5.1 • OS X 10.14.6 • MBP 15" Early 2013 • 2.4 GHz Intel Core i7 • 8GB RAM • iMac 27 Late 2013 • 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Saffire 6 USB • Presonus Inspire 1394 • Roland UM-One mkII • Behringer FCB1010 • Gibson ES335 • cheap midi keyboard
 
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Danny Wyatt
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Re: Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:16 am

JakobP wrote:
Danny Wyatt wrote:
... now all my open windows change, creating a visual mess....

Could you share a screenshot or two ?


It's pretty simple and you can recreate this:
Create a new track and add 3 plugins (e.g. EQ, Comp, Limiter).
Open all of those plugins. Now you have 3 windows open, right?
Now before the EQ (your first plugin on the chain), add for example a Gain plugin. Once you do that, all the windows that were open, will change.

This is the initial state:
before.png
before.png (569.25 KiB) Viewed 205 times


This is when I insert the EnVerb. Look at how the window with the limiter is gone and the other 2 plugins' windows changed without me doing anything.
The Enverb took the EQ's window. The EQ took the compressor's. The compressor took the Limiter's
after.png
after.png (509.95 KiB) Viewed 205 times
• Logic Pro X 10.4.6 • M-Audio Fast Track Pro 4x4
• MacBook Pro mid 2010 • macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 • 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 • 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

-----------------------------------------
Danny Wyatt (formerly known as 3ple) - Musician and Music Producer
http://www.iamdannywyatt.com (links to all my social media included)
 
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des99
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Re: Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:25 am

I think the problem is that windows are referenced based on the plugin slots. If you open a window for plugin slot 1, then insert a new plugin before plugin slot 1, the plugin slots are reordered, and the window showing plugin slot 1 will change to show the new plugin on slot 1 (the old one is now in plugin slot 2)

This will always happen if you change the plugin order by inserted or rearranging, it's just how Logic has been implemented, nothing has changed in this regard afaik. I'd suggest filing a Feedback if you're prefer a different behaviour...
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Danny Wyatt
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Re: Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:37 am

des99 wrote:
I think the problem is that windows are referenced based on the plugin slots. If you open a window for plugin slot 1, then insert a new plugin before plugin slot 1, the plugin slots are reordered, and the window showing plugin slot 1 will change to show the new plugin on slot 1 (the old one is now in plugin slot 2)

This will always happen if you change the plugin order by inserted or rearranging, it's just how Logic has been implemented, nothing has changed in this regard afaik. I'd suggest filing a Feedback if you're prefer a different behaviour...



Yes I’ve sent them some feedback about this.
I mean I understand why it works like that based on their “logic”, but it doesn’t make sense. Do you have to change all your automation if you add a new plugin as well or you simply change the order of a plugin? No. Logic automatically knows that plugin A is unique and that automation belongs to that plugin. Why wouldn’t windows behave the same way?

When you say “if you prefer a different behavior”, do you mean you don’t feel that this is not a natural behavior and should be changed?
I mean, if I’m mastering a track and I have 3 meters open and other plugins and suddenly I add a new one, am I supposed to go back and open those windows again and position them where I want them to be? Not natural and not logical at all (to me at least)
• Logic Pro X 10.4.6 • M-Audio Fast Track Pro 4x4
• MacBook Pro mid 2010 • macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 • 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 • 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

-----------------------------------------
Danny Wyatt (formerly known as 3ple) - Musician and Music Producer
http://www.iamdannywyatt.com (links to all my social media included)
 
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des99
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Re: Plugin windows behavior changed yet?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:44 am

No, I'm simply saying, this is the way it's been implemented, for whatever reason, and if you think if could be improved, send them some feedback (as you have done.)

I made no comment on how I feel about the current implementation at all... it's a workflow thing really - I can't say in using Logic since the early 90s that I've ever been bothered by this, but if it's something that is sub-optimal to you, that's what Feedback is for.

Basically, you want a given window to stay showing a given plugin (ie, the window is associated with the *plugin*), but Logic's implementation is that a window is associated with a particular *plugin slot*, not a particular plugin.

Neither approach is right or wrong, just the result of implementation and design decisions. I can see why you feel the current implementation is sub-optimal though.
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