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Volume problem


macdad
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Hi Atlas007. Lots of good things o try here. First of all, yes. It's my Logic B3 that is causing the problem. I made a copy of my controller surface setup window. (see Att. 1). I also clicked bypass all controllers as you suggested. Will see if this helps. However...bypassing controllers means I can/\'t use them for anything else either? Is this a solution in the long run? Also Control changes 7/10 controls Vol/Pan of channel strip objects box was off. I turned it on? Is that right. See Att. 2)

Maybe you could tell if something here in control panel (Att. 1) is giving out this bogus volume changing message. Can I delete something here? If so please tell me what and how (for dummies please). For now I have also used the modifier to filter out 11Expression messages. Changed a lot. Bit confused. Hope I'm on the right path. Thanks guys!!!

Your Att.1 or 2 aren't visible...

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...If you replace the Expression event with a Volume event, then both instruments are silenced for good, which seems to be the normal, expected behavior....

Are you sure you're sending the cc7 to the instrument ? (cc7/10 controls volume/pan... project setting = off?) Changing to cc7 here resets volume on both instruments when stopping/starting... Change the E-piano to a Sampler piano patch (Yamaha Grand) and the Sampler is silenced even after stop/start...

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...For now I have also used the modifier to filter out 11Expression messages. Changed a lot...

On your screenshot of the Modifier the "Thru" button is still enabled, meaning you're letting the expression events through to the instrument. You don't want that, it should be off (greyed out).

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Hi Atlas007. Lots of good things o try here. First of all, yes. It's my Logic B3 that is causing the problem. I made a copy of my controller surface setup window. (see Att. 1). I also clicked bypass all controllers as you suggested. Will see if this helps. However...bypassing controllers means I can/\'t use them for anything else either? Is this a solution in the long run? Also Control changes 7/10 controls Vol/Pan of channel strip objects box was off. I turned it on? Is that right. See Att. 2)

Maybe you could tell if something here in control panel (Att. 1) is giving out this bogus volume changing message. Can I delete something here? If so please tell me what and how (for dummies please). For now I have also used the modifier to filter out 11Expression messages. Changed a lot. Bit confused. Hope I'm on the right path. Thanks guys!!!

Your Att.1 or 2 aren't visible...

Ok, I see them now...

Your Att. 1 isn't showing the Control Surface Setup window, it is showing the Controller Assignment window. Try opening the former to see if an undue control surface (icon) got installed unduely...

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Are you sure you're sending the cc7 to the instrument ? (cc7/10 controls volume/pan... project setting = off?) Changing to cc7 here resets volume on both instruments when stopping/starting... Change the E-piano to a Sampler piano patch (Yamaha Grand) and the Sampler is silenced even after stop/start...

I was using the project file that you shared, and replaced the expression event with a volume (CC7) event.

 

If you consider a standalone instrument, it memorizes the last event it was sent as its current state. So if the last Expression event it receives was 0 then the instrument won't play sound until it receives a new higher Expression value. Same with pitch bend, panning etc.

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Are you sure you're sending the cc7 to the instrument ? (cc7/10 controls volume/pan... project setting = off?) Changing to cc7 here resets volume on both instruments when stopping/starting... Change the E-piano to a Sampler piano patch (Yamaha Grand) and the Sampler is silenced even after stop/start...

I was using the project file that you shared, and replaced the expression event with a volume (CC7) event.

 

If you consider a standalone instrument, it memorizes the last event it was sent as its current state. So if the last Expression event it receives was 0 then the instrument won't play sound until it receives a new higher Expression value. Same with pitch bend, panning etc.

Ok, yes, changing to cc7 in that project makes the faders move instead of sending the midi to the instrument, due to the project setting "Control Change 7710...". You need to change that setting to see what cc7 does to the instruments. Didn't think of changing that setting since it was cc11 I was trying...

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Sorry, I'll try again ! :) If "CC7/10 controls..." is checked as in the demoproject, any cc7 you send will not reach the instrument, it will be used by Logic to move the channel strip volume fader instead. So to see what cc7 will do to the instruments, the setting needs to be unchecked ?
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Sorry, I'll try again ! :) If "CC7/10 controls..." is checked as in the demoproject, any cc7 you send will not reach the instrument, it will be used by Logic to move the channel strip fader instead. So to see what cc7 will do to the instruments, the setting needs to be unchecked ?

Ok. But my point is that MIDI Events such as volume, expression or pitch bend can (and most of the time should) change the state of an instrument (whether the change is visible in a Mixer or not) until the instrument receives another value for that event type.

 

Consider using Logic with a hardware multi-timbral synthesizer that has its own onboard mixer. Or even an external standalone software instrument that isn't a plug-in inserted inside your Logic project. If you have a cycle turned on in Logic from bar 1 to bar 3 and turn the Expression=0 at the end of bar 3, then that channel is silenced for good. That's the expected behavior. Same as if you have a MIDI Volume=0 event (except that like in Logic, if the instrument has a mixer, then you would see that reflected by the fader position in the instrument's mixer).

 

So if you wanted to create a behavior that is consistent when using software instruments in Logic, then an Expression=0 event sent to the instrument should silence the instrument for good (no matter the presence of cycles, or whether you stop and start playback) until you send another Expression value. That would make the behavior consistent when using the same MIDI sequence with a software instrument plug-in or a standalone instrument (software or hardware).

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I agree to what you say, I just wanted to point out that there is inconsistent behavior between different Logic stock instruments, and this inconsistency is also reflected using cc7 volume events....

Yes, I do agree with the inconsistency between instruments in Logic.

 

In fact I'm not getting the exact same behavior as I was getting yesterday when running the same exact tests (same instruments) today.

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I found a new buggy behavior. I've inserted pitch bend events next to your CC11 events in your project. Now the behavior I get in response to the pitchbend event when the playhead cycles back to bar 1 depends on what edits I'm performing in other, unrelated regions in the projects during playback. This is 100% reproducible here.

 

:shock:

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Here's an example: if you playback the cycle without doing anything then the Pitchbend event in the last region doesn't affect anything. If on the other hand you wait for the playhead to pass the pitchbend event position (3 3 1 1) and immediately delete the empty "Delete Me" MIDI region that is further on the track, then the pitchbend does affect the tonewheels slowing down.

 

CC Weirdness 3.logicx.zip

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:shock: I created a new sampler track, option+shift+dragged the regions to the new track, powered the new track off and deleted the alias of the "Delete Me" between ptbd event and cycle end, and the B3 on the first track dropped in pitch... :? (Midi Chase off didn't change this behavior btw..)

EDIT Pitch resets next cycle start though, it seems...

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  • Solution

Hi Guys,

My Novation troubleshooting expert told me to reset the preferences. I did so and for now. (hope it stays that way!!!!) the volume is not dropping off/out unwantedly. I sent the message from him for others who might be having this problem. Thanks for all your help. You guys do a great service and I much appreciate it!

Jimmy

179056626_ScreenShot2021-07-22at12_30_14PM.png.2015c97e4dca19163cb043a34ac5328f.png

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Hi Guys,

My Novation troubleshooting expert told me to reset the preferences. I did so and for now. (hope it stays that way!!!!) the volume is not dropping off/out unwantedly. I sent the message from him for others who might be having this problem. Thanks for all your help. You guys do a great service and I much appreciate it!

Jimmy

Great! Good to hear Jimmy. Thank you for letting us know and for sharing the procedure here for anyone suffering from the same issue. If your problem reappears let us know and we'll continue the troubleshooting.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi David and all others who have recently tried to help me. I spoke too soon when saying that my problem was solved. It seems to have worked for a while after following the instructions that my Novation expert gave me (resetting the Audio/midi preferences) but the volume/expression problem has crept back and resurfaced. I tried to duplicate what I did the first time to rectify the situation but this time it isn't working

Sorry to say I'm still searching for a solution. I am including 2 attachments. One a screenshot for the first problem and attach. #2 (An audio file) for the 2nd problem).

I am still having the same issues with my midi "unwantedly" putting an expression event into my midi recording and making the. volume cut off. The only way I can regain the volume of the pluin is to either choose another sound. (volume reverts to normal) or go into the editor and raise the expression level to 127. this happens on any and all projects and any and all plug ins, be they logic or 3rd party plug ins. AI am including an attach. showing the events list where the expresion event appears as I apply more and more pressure to the key during recording.

 

That is my first issue. I have also included an audio mp3 bounce to show my 2nd problem. I am getting a breakup/distortion of the midi input on any and all projects and software instruments be they logic or 3rd party.

As I progressively add new notes to a chord .....(In my example a bass Bb an octave lower at the end of the chord), the instrument distorts or overloads, making a screeching sound. It only happens when I play a series of notes. What is causing this? Please help

1835663371_ScreenShot2021-09-16at5_38_28PM.thumb.png.bb14ce2566855519079654354939c0d4.png

2000092950_ScreenShot2021-09-16at5_44_55PM.thumb.png.4ba5dc80e37fe505ac9844674934f8f8.png

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Hi David,

I think I failed to send the 2nd attachment (audio file correctly. Midi distortion.....I don't see a way. The distortion occurs when I go down an octave to the low Bb note. I am not finding a way to send an mp3 audio file attachment on the formum message. When I hit add files and it shows me my choices on my desktop, the audio bounce is greyed out ???? What am I doing wrong? Or must I send it in an email?

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Hi Atlas007. I use the novation SL64 MkII. All your suggestions? I can't find them on this thread, Maybe you could send again if relevant? However, I spent hrs yesterday with the Novation specialist. He consulted with his colleagues. Here is their recommendation since i use catalina and have trashed the Automap which isn't compatible, I will try it today and see if the distortion as well as my volume drop due to creation of CC 11 event by hard pressure on keyboard goes away. Thanks so much for your help I'll get back to you when I've tried their suggestions. Here's what they wrote last night,

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for getting in touch via live chat earlier.

 

To confirm, as the aftertouch (expression) data isn't appearing in MIDI Monitor, this will isolate the issue to the Control Surface setup or possibly an assignment acting up.

 

As you are not using Automap, please could you remove your SL MK2 device from the Control Surface setup in Logic?

 

Should you wish to remap the SL controllers in Logic, you can manually assign these as per our guide: Manually assigning controls in Logic Pro X without using Automap/Logic Scripts

 

Then, to ensure the aftertouch message hasn't been accidentally remapped in Logic, please try setting the Controller Assignments to default:

 

Use controller assignments Easy view in Logic Pro

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/logicpro/ctls71c31487/mac

 

Use controller assignments Expert view in Logic Pro

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/logicpro/ctls71c3162b/mac

 

I hope this helps. Please feel free to let me know how you get on with the above.

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