macdad Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I need help. I have just installed the newest update to Logic. 10.6.3. I don't know if my problem is related to this or not. Here's what's happening. I install an instance of a software instrument. In this case a B3 organ. I select the preset and it plays fine or a bit. Suddenly the volume drops and I can't get it to back to it's normal volume unless I choose a different preset. This restores the volume to normal but the same thing happens a minute or two later. Please tell me what's going on and how I can fix it. The mixer shows that the fader (also output and master fader) but the input signal is at 1 third of where it should be. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Maybe your master keyboard is sending spurious MIDI volume commands to the instrument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 The mixer shows that the fader (also output and master fader) Sounds like you didn't finish that sentence... do the faders move or stay put? If you choose File > Project Settings > MIDI, is Control Change 7/10 controls Volume/Pan of channel strip objects selected or not? If it is, try deselecting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 The faders dint move. They stay at unity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 The faders dint move. They stay at unity What happened when you tried David's other suggestion? And for mine - does this still happen if you disconnect your MIDI controller/s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 I went to midi and checked controller 7/10 box was off. As to your query of turning off the midi controller????! The problem of the sound dropping off to almost nothing while the faders of the input channel and the stereo out and master remain at 0 unity can only be reproduced when I’m playing my master keyboard. How can I trouble shoot if I disconnect it. Of course then I would have no input signal at all ??? Also, doesn’t my info about the volume returning to normal when I choose a new preset from the sounds list tell you anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 I just recorded a segment and it played/recorded fine. The volume didn’t dip. When I played the keyboard without recording, the volume cut off again and I then removed the midi keyboard and played the recorded segment. It too played back with lower volume. (Almost not there. When I play the keyboard the input signal only shows - 40 dB. As I said, if I change the preset the fader input volume will return to 0db and sound is normal till it mysteriously shuts down again? Hope this is making sense. As I said, I don’t recall having had this problem before I did the new logic software update today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 As to your query of turning off the midi controller????! The problem of the sound dropping off to almost nothing while the faders of the input channel and the stereo out and master remain at 0 unity can only be reproduced when I’m playing my master keyboard. Ok, so that's already an important troubleshooting step which suggests it is indeed your master keyboard sending spurious MIDI data. How can I trouble shoot if I disconnect it. ? Disconnecting it and trying *is* an important troubleshooting step to try and find the cause. Hence why I suggested it. Of course then I would have no input signal at all ??? Of course. Doesn't matter, you can playback already recorded MIDI regions or use the caps lock keyboard to generate notes. The point is to find out whether it's your keyboard causing the volume issue. Also, doesn’t my info about the volume returning to normal when I choose a new preset from the sounds list tell you anything? Well, it backs up my hunch, but the preset volume being reset when switching presets doesn't itself tell me anything about the *cause* of the volume drops, which is what the disconnecting your MIDI controller thing is designed to do. Most likely your keyboard has a fader or control set to send MIDI volume, and it's sending out this lower volume command when you play the keyboard (usually because of cheap, dirty or defective sliders/controls). Try recording a MIDI part when the volume drop happens, then inspecting the recorded region in the event editor, and you should see the MIDI command causing the problem. If this is the case, then you can try waggling the control on your keyboard to see if that "settles" it, or take steps to reassign, or filter it out, to stop it haven't this affect in Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 When I played the keyboard without recording, the volume cut off again and I then removed the midi keyboard and played the recorded segment. It too played back with lower volume. Well yes, because you already recorded the event that turns the volume down, which will be played back. Disconnecting the controller now is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. It's not going to retroactively deleted the already recorded data. Anyway, my above post should give you some steps to work through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Try recording a MIDI part when the volume drop happens, then inspecting the recorded region in the event editor, and you should see the MIDI command causing the problem. I agree, that's the next step in order to troubleshoot your issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 I recorded with the volume being down. Here is a screen shot of my editor. does that tell you anything and, if so can you tell me where in logic or on my master key board I have to go to turn the effant message off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I don't see a volume event there, only note on events. Do you see a volume event in the region where the volume drops down? If you don't, can you attach the project file here? How to attach files to your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 Like I said, I didn’t experience a volume drop while recording. I played quite some time. The volume drop occurred though rather soon while playing notes in after having stopped the recording. I’ll try again but could it be that being in record hinders the volume lowerering controller command? If that makes any sense. At any rate, I’ll try again making a super long recording Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 I managed to make a recording where the volume dropped off towards the end. I hope I can copy and send you the entire events list so you can preview the situation. If this doesnt work I can try a screen shot. Once again, thankS 0 4 4 146 Note 1 A2 87 0 3 2 152 0 4 4 159 Note 1 A3 47 0 3 2 105 0 4 4 166 Note 1 C4 72 0 3 2 121 0 4 4 168 Note 1 E4 68 0 3 2 137 1 4 4 216 Note 1 E4 121 0 0 0 177 1 4 4 226 Note 1 E2 44 0 0 0 207 1 4 4 233 Note 1 A3 92 0 0 0 150 1 4 4 234 Note 1 C4 82 0 0 0 133 2 1 3 33 Note 1 E2 112 0 0 0 239 2 1 3 37 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 0 182 2 1 3 48 Note 1 A3 112 0 0 0 146 2 1 3 48 Note 1 C4 108 0 0 0 148 2 2 2 210 Note 1 E2 108 0 0 1 55 2 2 3 6 Note 1 C4 92 0 0 0 162 2 2 3 11 Note 1 E4 108 0 0 0 192 2 2 3 12 Note 1 A3 68 0 0 0 179 2 3 2 217 Note 1 A3 102 0 0 1 51 2 3 2 218 Note 1 E4 112 0 0 1 63 2 3 2 227 Note 1 E2 72 0 0 1 34 2 3 2 238 Note 1 C4 102 0 0 1 12 2 3 3 5 Note 1 D2 68 0 0 0 131 2 4 4 163 Note 1 E4 108 0 3 1 157 2 4 4 165 Note 1 A3 87 0 3 0 167 2 4 4 175 Note 1 C4 102 0 3 1 19 3 4 4 118 Note 1 D4 92 0 0 0 205 3 4 4 127 Note 1 E2 82 0 0 1 10 3 4 4 137 Note 1 B3 64 0 0 0 174 3 4 4 151 Note 1 G3 50 0 0 0 172 4 1 2 227 Note 1 D4 108 0 0 1 28 4 1 2 229 Note 1 B3 87 0 0 1 5 4 1 3 5 Note 1 E2 87 0 0 1 21 4 1 3 7 Note 1 G3 64 0 0 0 189 4 2 3 58 Note 1 B3 108 0 0 0 235 4 2 3 70 Note 1 E2 87 0 0 0 223 4 2 3 70 Note 1 D4 108 0 0 0 207 4 2 3 82 Note 1 G3 64 0 0 0 184 4 3 3 31 Note 1 B3 108 0 0 1 33 4 3 3 42 Note 1 G3 77 0 0 1 2 4 3 3 48 Note 1 D4 102 0 0 1 3 4 3 3 50 Note 1 E2 77 0 0 1 57 4 4 3 89 Note 1 A3 97 0 3 2 3 4 4 3 114 Note 1 F3 64 0 2 2 140 4 4 3 121 Note 1 C4 97 0 3 2 33 4 4 3 162 Note 1 D2 56 0 0 1 129 4 4 3 175 Note 1 E2 68 0 0 1 22 5 1 1 228 Note 1 D2 6 0 3 1 109 5 4 4 215 Note 1 E2 97 0 0 0 215 5 4 4 215 Note 1 B3 87 0 0 0 185 5 4 4 217 Note 1 G3 64 0 0 0 176 5 4 4 219 Note 1 D4 87 0 0 0 183 6 1 3 39 Note 1 E2 112 0 0 1 101 6 1 3 41 Note 1 D4 121 0 0 0 195 6 1 3 48 Note 1 B3 108 0 0 0 156 6 1 3 52 Note 1 G3 97 0 0 0 163 6 2 3 16 Note 1 E2 121 0 0 1 80 6 2 3 21 Note 1 D4 126 0 0 1 10 6 2 3 22 Note 1 B3 124 0 0 1 17 6 2 3 27 Note 1 G3 112 0 0 0 196 6 3 2 203 Note 1 E2 112 0 0 2 215 6 3 3 10 Note 1 G3 112 0 0 0 238 6 3 3 10 Note 1 B3 121 0 0 1 39 6 3 3 10 Note 1 D4 126 0 0 1 69 6 4 4 227 Note 1 A2 97 0 2 1 52 7 1 1 8 Note 1 E4 108 0 2 0 194 7 1 1 13 Note 1 A3 97 0 2 0 182 7 1 1 13 Note 1 C4 108 0 2 0 189 7 3 3 45 Note 1 A3 124 0 0 0 192 7 3 3 45 Note 1 C4 121 0 0 0 199 7 3 3 45 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 0 224 7 3 3 66 Note 1 A2 102 0 0 0 219 7 4 2 232 Note 1 E4 102 0 0 2 212 7 4 3 15 Note 1 B3 102 0 0 0 232 7 4 3 20 Note 1 G2 92 0 0 2 235 7 4 3 22 Note 1 G3 87 0 0 2 170 7 4 4 115 Note 1 B3 24 0 0 1 70 8 1 3 20 Note 1 G3 112 0 0 0 200 8 1 3 20 Note 1 B3 121 0 0 0 196 8 1 3 24 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 0 226 8 1 3 33 Note 1 G2 117 0 0 0 233 8 2 2 164 Note 1 G2 108 0 0 3 23 8 2 2 199 Note 1 B3 117 0 0 2 132 8 2 2 208 Note 1 G3 97 0 0 2 179 8 2 2 210 Note 1 E4 124 0 0 2 173 8 3 2 238 Note 1 G3 108 0 0 3 202 8 3 3 5 Note 1 B3 112 0 0 3 219 8 3 3 11 Note 1 G2 108 0 1 0 227 8 3 3 20 Note 1 E4 112 0 1 0 202 8 4 4 236 Note 1 A3 108 0 2 0 94 9 1 1 11 Note 1 E4 102 0 2 0 124 9 1 1 23 Note 1 C4 108 0 2 0 91 9 1 1 51 Note 1 F2 60 0 2 0 132 9 1 1 74 Note 1 E2 77 0 0 1 17 9 3 2 195 Note 1 E4 117 0 1 0 174 9 3 2 200 Note 1 C4 102 0 0 1 29 9 3 2 202 Note 1 A3 97 0 0 0 228 9 3 2 211 Note 1 F2 102 0 0 1 83 9 4 4 156 Note 1 E2 102 0 0 1 102 9 4 4 217 Note 1 G3 92 0 0 1 26 9 4 4 217 Note 1 B3 97 0 0 0 239 9 4 4 217 Note 1 E4 112 0 0 0 234 10 1 2 222 Note 1 G3 82 0 0 2 3 10 1 2 227 Note 1 E4 117 0 0 1 197 10 1 2 231 Note 1 B3 102 0 0 1 167 10 1 2 240 Note 1 E2 117 0 0 1 188 10 2 2 227 Note 1 G3 97 0 0 1 170 10 2 2 229 Note 1 B3 102 0 0 1 168 10 2 2 240 Note 1 E4 112 0 0 1 47 10 2 3 4 Note 1 E2 112 0 0 1 164 10 3 3 23 Note 1 G3 102 0 0 1 175 10 3 3 23 Note 1 B3 112 0 0 2 106 10 3 3 28 Note 1 E2 82 0 0 3 77 10 3 3 29 Note 1 E4 112 0 0 3 3 10 3 3 41 A-Touch 1 0 10 4 4 213 Note 1 A2 82 0 2 0 238 10 4 4 219 Note 1 C4 102 0 2 2 130 10 4 4 229 Note 1 E4 112 0 2 3 76 10 4 4 233 Note 1 A3 102 0 2 0 46 11 3 2 162 Note 1 A2 124 0 1 1 168 11 3 2 205 A-Touch 1 0 11 3 4 206 Note 1 A3 126 0 0 2 139 11 4 2 192 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 1 115 11 4 2 208 Note 1 C4 124 0 0 1 81 11 4 4 171 Note 1 E4 22 0 0 2 194 12 1 1 4 Note 1 G3 108 0 0 2 45 12 1 1 11 Note 1 A3 121 0 0 0 129 12 1 1 31 Note 1 B3 112 0 0 2 27 12 1 3 12 Note 1 G2 121 0 1 1 122 12 2 2 226 Note 1 B3 124 0 0 1 85 12 2 2 229 Note 1 G3 117 0 0 1 89 12 2 3 5 Note 1 E4 117 0 0 1 108 12 3 3 15 Note 1 B3 124 0 0 2 42 12 3 3 19 Note 1 G3 121 0 0 2 65 12 3 3 27 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 2 25 12 3 3 61 A-Touch 1 0 12 4 1 17 Note 1 G2 127 0 0 2 239 12 4 3 31 Note 1 B3 112 0 0 2 48 12 4 3 33 Note 1 G3 112 0 0 2 42 12 4 3 52 Note 1 E4 102 0 0 2 122 13 1 1 45 Note 1 F2 124 0 1 1 93 13 2 1 59 Note 1 A3 121 0 0 3 205 13 2 1 61 Note 1 C4 117 0 0 3 225 13 2 1 69 Note 1 E4 121 0 0 3 238 13 2 4 235 Note 1 F2 126 0 0 2 153 13 3 3 30 Note 1 A3 127 0 0 0 183 13 3 3 37 Note 1 C4 126 0 0 0 179 13 3 3 41 Note 1 E4 126 0 0 0 175 13 4 2 163 Note 1 E4 68 0 0 1 153 13 4 3 57 Note 1 B3 117 0 0 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Can you attach the Logic project? How to attach files to your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 Hi David, Hope I sent the file with the volume drop in record o rrectly Volume drop off test.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 To see your controller events, toggle off the "Notes" and the "Additional Info" buttons at the top. There are two low-value (6 then 5) Expression controller events @ 17 2 4 48 and 21 3 2 239. Select them and press delete to remove them. You may need to reset the Expression value of the instrument to get it to playback at its default volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 Ok did that deleted the 2 events. Volumes still low. Where do I reset the expression value of the instrument to set it to default value and is this gonna mean that this expression change isn’t going to happen again. What is sending this? Fault in master keyboard or some logic setting. I just want to get to a place where my volume doesn’t drop off and makes working impossible. Like I said, I didn’t have this problem before yesterday when I installed the latest logic update, long after having upgraded to Catalina . Is this related to logic update or just a coincident. Wanna make this input/playing problem go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 I’ve set the expression to 127 in the editor windo. It was at 0. No sound. Now it’s back. 127 correct expression value? And the big question. Will it stay there or give out a bogus command again I guess I’ll find out. At any rate, thank for your help so far. You guys are amazing and ever so helpful and knowledgeable. When my novation expert answers my ticket I can ask him if it’s the master keyboard giving logic bogus expression commands and how to fix them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hi again, I haven't heard back from you. My big question from above was answered today while working in Logic. Answer...."NO". The problem is still there and just happened again. Dropping the vol at bar 4 to 6. I have sent a similar message to my Novation expert. He had me do a middie monitor test to see if my keyboard is sending out any bogus midi messages. He didn't see any. I don't even use expression and have no expression pedal either. I sure hope one or both of you cn help me. Of course one can't work this way, having the volume drop out in the middle of playing. Thanks in advance for any help. Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 Here's the event list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Yeah, probably the keyboard sending those expression events... You can insert a midi fx Modifier on the channel strip to filter them out, set it like this: (Make sure the "Thru" button is off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 OK! Thanks will try that. I'll see if that solves the problem. Maybe my keyboard has a hardware defect? I'll use your go around suggestion for now since I very rarely use Expression anyway. Merci! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I guess it could be a setting on the keyboard, too ? Nevertheless, I think Logic instruments are behaving weird when responding to cc11 (and cc7). I tried this on a couple of different Logic instruments, and I suspect there could be a bug involved, since some instruments like ES1, ES2 etc resets their volume when stopping and starting Logic, while others like the B3, and I think all the sample® based instruments doesn't reset at all, only thing that make them produce audio again seems to be to create a cc11 event with value 127 on the same track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I can't reproduce your problem here. I get a normal volume from the instrument. Make sure all devices are turned off except your Mac and try again? Try to insert an Expression event of 127 at the beginning of the region and playback without anything connected to your Mac (or all connected devices turned off). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) I can't reproduce your problem here. I get a normal volume from the instrument. Make sure all devices are turned off except your Mac and try again? Try to insert an Expression event of 127 at the beginning of the region and playback without anything connected to your Mac (or all connected devices turned off). Not sure you responded to me or the OP ? I made a quick demo project showing the inconsistent behavior here... Play the cycle through and then stop and start. The B3 is silenced for good, not the E-Piano... CC Weirdness.logicx.zip Edited July 20, 2021 by JakobP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Have you tried bypassing all the controllers in Logic? Choose Logic Pro > Preferences > Control Surfaces > Bypass all Control Surfaces. Also I would verify in the Control Surface Setup window to find out if any undue MIDI controllers got installed inadvertantly. In such a case, select it and hit delete on your computer keyboard. Another approach could be to trash your control surface preferences. If the MIDI Expression data income seems to be the cause of your issue, have you tried filtering same within the MIDI settings? BTW, does the problem occurs with other plugins? Does that B3 is native Logic plugin or is it a 3rd party one? One could try the usual troubleshooting rundown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 ...If the MIDI Expression data income seems to be the cause of your issue, have you tried filtering same within the MIDI settings? BTW, does the problem occurs with other plugins? Does that B3 is native Logic plugin or is it a 3rd party one?... The MIDI input filter has no checkbox for expression unfortunately This occurs with many of the stock instruments, e.g. the Vintage B3, some other instruments works fine... (all synths except Sculpture seems fine but most sample based don't ) I added a screenshot and a "demo" project to my previous post to illustrate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Not sure you responded to me or the OP ? It was to the OP actually. I made a quick demo project showing the inconsistent behavior here... Play the cycle through and then stop and start. The B3 is silenced for good, not the E-Piano...CC Inconsistency.png CC Weirdness.logicx.zip I see, the behavior upon restarting playback after sending a low expression value is inconsistent (the behavior is not the same for all instruments). Hard to tell which behavior is correct/expected? If you replace the Expression event with a Volume event, then both instruments are silenced for good, which seems to be the normal, expected behavior. If you reset the Expression to 127 one way or another (with a live controller, or an event at the beginning of the region for example) then you should hear your instrument as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdad Posted July 20, 2021 Author Share Posted July 20, 2021 Hi Atlas007. Lots of good things o try here. First of all, yes. It's my Logic B3 that is causing the problem. I made a copy of my controller surface setup window. (see Att. 1). I also clicked bypass all controllers as you suggested. Will see if this helps. However...bypassing controllers means I can/\'t use them for anything else either? Is this a solution in the long run? Also Control changes 7/10 controls Vol/Pan of channel strip objects box was off. I turned it on? Is that right. See Att. 2) Maybe you could tell if something here in control panel (Att. 1) is giving out this bogus volume changing message. Can I delete something here? If so please tell me what and how (for dummies please). For now I have also used the modifier to filter out 11Expression messages. Changed a lot. Bit confused. Hope I'm on the right path. Thanks guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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