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Alchemy sound. Segmented and not a whole.


jpeek345

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Hello,

 

I was wondering if a "synth head" here may know of any synthesizer on the market that attempts to isolate a desireable sound made from a sum of sound sources.

 

In Alchemy I have found that its well...alchemy...yields sounds that are novel but with an analog feel that lacks.

 

In most of the tuts on Alchemy I see good-meaning folks show how to build a sound from scratch and then by tutorials end, hope to show how you've got the same idea as when you started.

 

In Alchemy the elusive "secondary" arp sound in question repeats itself but never in a rhythmic predictability.

 

What is often the case is that Alchemy produces these novel "artifacts" that... if one truly succeeded at taming could make for an amazing song seed.

 

Tuts on psychoacoustics, ontology or using-contrast-in-composing-to-boost-tone-color aside...one can slip through the cracks of Alchemys main players responsible for such "ghosts in the machine".

 

 

The main players that come to mind are the sound sources A,B,C,D.

 

The "random" behavior of the sound most likely an arp synthesizer within Alchemy.

 

The short of it is that in most cases when you try to isolate a desirable "secondary sound" underneath the main theater in play... you cannot.

 

No amount of on-off scenarios with A,B,C or D...isolating these sources in the modulation section or performance (effects section) or minimizing or maximizing a section while listening can isolate the spontaneous secondary sound desired.

 

Theres something about the fundamental that when the arp is triggered... its under proprietary lock-and-key and now anybodys guess as to whos responsible for that sound.

 

....Whether its a sample-centric sound in Alchemy, a mix of samples with basic waveforms (2 sound sources A+B, + 2 sound sources C+D) or just waveforms.

 

I've been here in this forum and many places on the web beating this drum on Alchemy.

 

(And maybe because the Alchemy-Apple proprietary dilemma also waves the psychoacoustic percussion element these sounds can inspire as well (however throwback))

 

 

So in closing, I am wondering in todays age of state-of-the-art AI advances in audio.....Can we free Alchemys secondary (3rd, 4th etc) sound artifacts for modern songwriters in the Logic Pro DAW or do we leave this launchpad entirely for someone elses satellite launchpad?

 

So here's the bifurcation:

 

 

1. Ask around to other synth-makers who have built a powerful audio AI app that:

 

(app A) illuminates your desired secondary sound (remember photosounder.com?) by

(app B) succeeding at the right interface between man-and-machine

(app C) IDs the very sonic profile...indeed the proprietary synth sound (hint: shannon-nyquist, Fast Fourier Transform, waveform maths (symbolic computation?), etc)

(app D) then either through another SIRI AI app asks -you -what -you'd -like -to -do with that sound OR machine-builds-on-demand a newly generated synthesizer for the sound you just summoned forward with the afore-mentioned apps.

 

(Let alone what can be done with Apple glasses and 3D model visualization collaboration with other sound design music producers. Whats the darling billion dollar Spotify platform now but just a multi-app beast from MITs ECHo Nest?)

 

 

2. Get to the heart of Alchemy.

 

 

Keep on keeping on,

 

 

-Gladys

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If I read that correctly you are hearing a particular layer in an Alchemy patch that you would like to use by itself without the rest of the patch and soloing A, B, C and D doesn't reveal it.

 

If you would care to give a list of patches that display this behavior, why not tell us what it is and what layer you are trying to isolate.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello and thank you for replying.

Simply open an instance of Alchemy and under "browse" search (lower right-hand corner) "Neurons Firing."

With the musical keyboard (type 'apple K'), set the octave range to "C0".

Hit the note "G" and hold.

After 5 secs, you can hear a new futuristic "Run Like Hell" drum...if only it could be isolated.

I also wrote to not have to resort to sampling and use the synthesizer generated sound as only a passing note or loop in a song. (see above)

The extensive options offered for the primary sounds, the sounds in the forefront, are disappointing when trying to re-animate the reclusive sounds generated by Alchemy.

 

The signal fidelity in audio is paramount to a major label and their budget for hardware but not me the poverty-line bedroom producer?

I don't think so.

As an internet producer vs. major platform/major label producer I desire as 'much of the crunch' as can be when considering the compression and eq phase when tasked with integrating a real human vocalist into the mix.

 

The randomly generated secondary sounds are a strength of Alchemy.

So praise is due to the original creators of Alchemy.

But the enlistment of Camel Audios Alchemy into Logic Pro has "shut the door" to the real exploration of Alchemys artifacts to only a fraction of parameter manipulation when finally isolated.

 

In the future and only online (Apples IOs is now online) will we have such powerful aural AI that someone designs an automatic "synthesizer-maker" who fetches these secondary sounds as a matter of routine. (see above)

Only ten years ago I asked if we could please separate elements and instruments in an already recorded audio file and 80% of the forum recipients went to great lengths to disprove the scientific reality of such a question.

Today enter Spleeter, a mere facsimile of the 'deepfake' audio technology that exists that is using the premise of the science (MASER bandwidth suppression and subsequent amplifying) in long distance audio surveillance from satellite.

 

Yah I'm here if we can trick Alchemy out.

 

I've got another preset that I need to put into my EP.

 

So I'm all ears...

 

 

Thank you.

 

jpeek345 aka Kiva Dour @KVRaudio

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If you look at hardware synths, many of them can isolate layers. For example, Yamaha Motif series (either 4 or 8 "elements" per patch) or Montage series (8 elements per patch) can easily mute/solo elements. Primary reason for this is to simplify programming, each layer can be soloed for detailed tweaking then easily bring back the other layers to hear the new result.

 

Alchemy also allows each layer A-D to be muted or soloed, again mainly for programming purposes. It's possible to save as a new patch(es) with only the isolated layers present.

 

I'll go look into the Neurons Firing patch and see what I can dig up for you.

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Ok, here is what is going on. The arpeggiator is OFF by default, the rhythm comes from the sample used.

 

All four sources use the exact same sample.

 

1691548879_ScreenShot2021-07-28at12_37_00PM.png.c9abbd4f30d6b489482de2527427b554.png

 

Sources A and B use Forward/Back looping

 

1657710219_ScreenShot2021-07-28at12_38_03PM.png.ee5121f8378b401a4c3754896a75c244.png

 

Sources C and D use Continuous looping.

 

2058243387_ScreenShot2021-07-28at12_38_13PM.png.92553b11ed2beccd457cbe811b7fa618.png

 

Here is the raw sample. As you can see it is mapped across the entire key range:

 

627688428_ScreenShot2021-07-28at12_37_16PM.thumb.png.ef2b4904e894511a25e013301bad48d6.png

 

It sounds like this:

 

[soundcloud]

[/soundcloud]

 

The sample's "rhythm" that you are hearing as drums is simply the playback being slowed down as the notes played get lower and lower. Clever bit of programming, actually.

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Hi,

 

Is the sample you so kindly uploaded to SC useful in manipulating Alchemy to create a non-sample rhythm out of it within Alchemys parameters?

 

When I chose the edit button (which I am assuming you did to get to the sample view) I chose section C because I assume you chose section A which was of a pair produced your uploaded sample.

 

(I encourage to press the piano in Alchemys sampler view a couple of times so the old girl doesn't play the sound of all four sources(global) on the first press of your key note.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This rhythm...found on "C0" octave range is what I want to manipulate (synthesize) and even an octave range lower.

 

I am also looking for a state of art sonic that doesn't have what I uploaded sound like it is tweaking its head off with lossy audio.

 

You know.

 

Anyway.

 

These two Soundcloud bounces demo more of the sound I was after.

 

Lastly, if we had a synth-maker get excited about A.I., machine learning in general and subsequent "automatic synthesizer makers" (incidentally, I invited Xfer founder Steve Duda in on this. How about Mr. D. Earl?) we can reintroduce this premise back to Alchemy (if it were an AI modded Alchemy) and a SIRI-like AI would have the programming to ask "What would you like to do with your new (in this case) rhythm today?"(see way above)

 

 

thankyou kindly.

 

Jpeek345

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Hey,

 

Thanks Enossified.

 

Though it may appear that I've conflated two objectives:

 

(1) getting a song including Alchemy finished and released

(2) 'teaching yourself to make music software'

 

-I appreciate working with you.

 

If these were better times Apple may have enough in its budget to apply my ideas in this and other posts on Alchemy I've left on the web.

 

I tried to be a "synth playa".

 

One who may not require the found-sound itself to get inspiration but who can derive sufficient aural satisfaction over time invested in just the sonic contour of the found-sound.

 

Being a simple singer-songwriter I am no Gary Wright.

 

I still believe that Alchemys analog footprint has a place for a downtempo single thats in the forefront of the sound.

 

One that is apart from any hardware.

 

Pure software.

 

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

jpeek345

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