Bug or Feature? Importing Drummer track converts it to midi

I have trouble importing drummer tracks from other projects.

When I perform an import (File/Import/Logic projects…) the Drummer region ends up a midi file.

This happens both on 10.6.3 and 10.5.1.

In 10.4.8 I get the expected behaviour. The original drummer region.

 

I created a new user and the result is the same.

 

Did Apple change anything or is this a bug?

Updated my signature to reflect current status.

No one else with this problem?

 

Is there anyone that has got the time to try it out?

 

Create a new project from the basic template.

Create a Drummer track.

Save and close project.

 

Create a new project from the basic template.

Import the Drummer track from the previous project. File/Import/Logic projects…

 

Do you get the expected (yellow) Drummer region or just a plain midi region?

Do you get the expected (yellow) Drummer region or just a plain midi region?

I get the plain MIDI region.

I'll give that a try when I get to the studio...

Here I get the normal yellow drummer region. But...If I create the project in 10.5.1 and import it in 10.6.3 then I get the green midi region (Second screen capture).

 

But I'm not sure if it is the reverse! Sorry. I'll double check and report back.

 

Update: ok indeed drummer track created in 10.6.3 and imported in 10.5.1 produce a green midi region.

Edited July 20, 2021 by stratquebec

Importing a drummer track will indeed import the MIDI rendered region instead of the Drummer region itself.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to trouble shoot this issue!

 

Time to report this bug to Apple!

Just as a follow up, everything is fine here, as long as I stay in Logic Pro 10.6.3.

I created a project with a Drummer track, saved and closed the project. I started a new project, imported the drummer track from the previously created 10.6.3 project. The result is a normal yellow drummer track region.

 

But, if I create a project in 10.6.3, add a drummer track in, save and close the project, launch 10.5.1, create a project, import the drummer track previously created in 106.3 then I get the green midi region (and the Edit>Convert function is grayed out).

 

I'm running MacOs Catalina 10.15.7.

Just as a follow up, everything is fine here, as long as I stay in Logic Pro 10.6.3.

I created a project with a Drummer track, saved and closed the project. I started a new project, imported the drummer track from the previously created 10.6.3 project. The result is a normal yellow drummer track region.

I did exactly the same (Drummer 10.6.3 imported into a new project 10.6.3) but got (green) MIDI regions instead of a Drummer region.

Would you mind re-posting your animated gif demonstrating same?

Thanks everyone for taking the time to trouble shoot this issue!

 

Time to report this bug to Apple!

I don't know if it's actually a bug, considering that the Drummer region isn't MIDI data per say but rather an algorithm that creates a percussion pattern based after the projects it sits in. Therefore importing that algorithmic drummer region into a new project would likely yield creating a different rhythmic pattern from the original from where it was imported from.

I did exactly the same (Drummer 10.6.3 imported into a new project 10.6.3) but got (green) MIDI regions instead of a Drummer region.

Same here.

Just as a follow up, everything is fine here, as long as I stay in Logic Pro 10.6.3.

I created a project with a Drummer track, saved and closed the project. I started a new project, imported the drummer track from the previously created 10.6.3 project. The result is a normal yellow drummer track region.

I did exactly the same (Drummer 10.6.3 imported into a new project 10.6.3) but got (green) MIDI regions instead of a Drummer region.

Would you mind re-posting your animated gif demonstrating same?

 

Here another test I just did on my Macbook Pro.:

Drummer - 10.6.3.logicx.zip

I also uploaded the Logic Pro 10.6.3 drummer track project.

This test is done on my Macbook Pro. Many of the Logic Pro content is NOT downloaded.

I did the exact same test on my iMac with Logic Pro 10.6.3 with all the content downloaded and guess what?

Wow!! I get the damn green midi region!

 

Go figure! Either I'am a fool, which is possible, or this bug is related to the Logic Pro content present on the drive.

And here's what I get when I place the pointer over the Edit>Convert menu item for the green midi region:

I did exactly the same (Drummer 10.6.3 imported into a new project 10.6.3) but got (green) MIDI regions instead of a Drummer region.

Would you mind re-posting your animated gif demonstrating same?

 

Here another test I just did on my Macbook Pro.:

In your animated .gif, the yellow region you import is a midi region,(look close to see the midi notes). The reason the region is yellow is probably that it's adopting the track color...

 

Here another test I just did on my Macbook Pro.:

In your animated .gif, the yellow region you import is a midi region,(look close to see the midi notes). The reason the region is yellow is probably that it's adopting the track color...

 

Ah, man, it’s so true! Thanks so much for your input! So, case closed. It’s truly a bug.

Can't you just convert it back to a drummer region after import ?

Maybe we should toss this over to the Logic software-development team ... because this might be a very good new feature.

 

When you "import an algorithmically-generated track," of course "it makes sense" to run that algorithm and to import the generated sequence of MIDI events. Unless ... unless ... unless ... that's not what you want Logic to do. So, maybe Logic should stop and ask you how you would prefer for it to handle this ambiguous situation.

 

Should it render an output and import that output as MIDI, as it does now, or should it instead import the parameters ... alerting you, of course, if any of them are now incompatible. Clearly, users might prefer either one ... therefore, "ask them."

Can't you just convert it back to a drummer region after import ?

Unfortunately no. Convert is grayed out. here's what I get when I place the pointer over the Edit>Convert menu item for the green midi region: download/file.php?id=52811

Maybe we should toss this over to the Logic software-development team ... because this might be a very good new feature.

 

When you "import an algorithmically-generated track," of course "it makes sense" to run that algorithm and to import the generated sequence of MIDI events. Unless ... unless ... unless ... that's not what you want Logic to do. So, maybe Logic should stop and ask you how you would prefer for it to handle this ambiguous situation.

 

Should it render an output and import that output as MIDI, as it does now, or should it instead import the parameters ... alerting you, of course, if any of them are now incompatible. Clearly, users might prefer either one ... therefore, "ask them."

 

Good suggestion!

Ok, had to try for myself then So it seems that it's not possible to import Drummer tracks at all, all you get is a standard software instrument track with the same instrument as the drummer track in the original project...

Guess it's a bug ?

Ok, had to try for myself then So it seems that it's not possible to import Drummer tracks at all, all you get is a standard software instrument track with the same instrument as the drummer track in the original project...

Guess it's a bug ?

 

Um, no so sure now. Let me quote Atlas007:

I don't know if it's actually a bug, considering that the Drummer region isn't MIDI data per say but rather an algorithm that creates a percussion pattern based after the projects it sits in. Therefore importing that algorithmic drummer region into a new project would likely yield creating a different rhythmic pattern from the original from where it was imported from

 

Really make sens when you think of it. What you import is a « static » rendered drummer performance of the imported project. Otoh, re-converting this midi region to a new drummer track should be an option.

 

As a workaround, I just tested the following procedure and it seems to work well:

• Create a project
  Import a drummer track
  Create a new drummer track
  Drag the imported green (or whatever color) midi region onto the newly created drummer track
  Now you can come over Edit>Convert>Convert To Drummer Region and you'll get a true Drummer region

Ok, had to try for myself then So it seems that it's not possible to import Drummer tracks at all, all you get is a standard software instrument track with the same instrument as the drummer track in the original project...

Guess it's a bug ?

More I think about it, the more I believe it isn't a bug.

I think that is a feature that has simply not been implemented as such.

 

And I think that make sense the way it currently is.

If one wishes to import a (percussion) track (from another project), the performance itself from the latter is what to logically expect since it is what is desired.

 

Otherwise, the way Drummer (region/track) actually works (and was designed to) would be the equivalent of creating a new Drummer track, considering that it is an algorithm to create a pattern based on the project it is currently instantiated in (not based on the project it came from).

 

Saving Drummer presets is (already) the orthodox way to make Drummer settings available in other projects.

Adding the Drummer preset option to the import feature might be of some use but, that would be an extra addition to the code prone to cause other (real) bugs.

 

My 2 cents...

More I think about it, the more I believe it isn't a bug.

I think that is a feature that has simply not been implemented as such.

 

And I think that make sense the way it currently is.

If one wishes to import a (percussion) track (from another project), the performance itself from the latter is what to logically expect since it is what is desired.

 

Otherwise, the way Drummer (region/track) actually works (and was designed to) would be the equivalent of creating a new Drummer track, considering that it is an algorithm to create a pattern based on the project it is currently instantiated in (not based on the project it came from).

 

Saving Drummer presets is (already) the orthodox way to make Drummer settings available in other projects.

Adding the Drummer preset option to the import feature might be of some use but, that would be an extra addition to the code prone to cause other (real) bugs.

 

My 2 cents...

Yes, you make some very good points all around, and I think you may be right. If an actual Drummer track was imported then that behavior could be considered a bug since in many cases one would end up with a track that differs from the original that was imported, due to discrepancy in project tempos (and any changes thereof), time signature (and any changes thereof), other tracks being followed, etc etc...

Bug or feature?

I don’t know how the Logic team thinks about this.

But if I load 10.4.8 I get the original Drummer region and if I load up 10.5.1 or 10.6.3 I get the midi region when I perform the import. So something has changed over time.

 

I’ve searched the release notes from 10.5 an on and there is no documentation about the changed behavior.

Does that indicate that this is a bug? I don’t know…

 

Some of you have pointed out that a midi region could be the better outcome when you import a Drummer track because of the algorithmic nature of Drummer.

In my case it was the opposite, I wanted to import the Drummer track from an earlier version of the same song since I hade committed everything to audio tracks and now needed to make some changes.

 

So, maybe Logic should stop and ask you how you would prefer for it to handle this ambiguous situation.

This would indeed be the best solution IMO!

...

So, maybe Logic should stop and ask you how you would prefer for it to handle this ambiguous situation.

This would indeed be the best solution IMO!

To me it would be fine with a midi region, (easily converted) as long as we get a "real" Drummer track...

I have trouble importing drummer tracks from other projects.

When I perform an import (File/Import/Logic projects…) the Drummer region ends up a midi file.

This happens both on 10.6.3 and 10.5.1.

In 10.4.8 I get the expected behaviour. The original drummer region.

 

I created a new user and the result is the same.

 

Did Apple change anything or is this a bug?

 

Don't import, save your preset so you can recall it later.

If you want the preset applied to other drummers, select Keep settings when changing drummers before selecting any drummer.

 

Nice tutorial.

I've been using presets as a workaround in this scenario since 10.5.

 

But in this special use case it takes a lot of time to first make presets of 10-20 regions and after that document every regions length and placement. And then you have to switch to the new project and recreate every region and apply the presets while keeping your fingers crossed that the actual performance of the regions don't change too much.

All this instead of just import a Drummer track.

Nice tutorial.

I've been using presets as a workaround in this scenario since 10.5.

 

But in this special use case it takes a lot of time to first make presets of 10-20 regions and after that document every regions length and placement. And then you have to switch to the new project and recreate every region and apply the presets while keeping your fingers crossed that the actual performance of the regions don't change too much.

All this instead of just import a Drummer track.

Using a MIDI gives you want you want, an exact copy of what was played.

 

If you want to have a same starting point but to adjust for a new performance, preset is the way.

 

The one thing I'll point out is the preset will be the same for the original drummer you saved the preset in, but that changes once you use an arrangement.

Are you using an Arrangement?

 

The preset will play but if an arrangement is being used, it'll adjust for that.

Plus, are you using Follow?

 

Follow will follow another MIDI track or a Audio Track and you can even mix down several tracks and follow a mix down of that, which will result in 3 different drummer performances.

 

 

The last thing I'll point out as well.

You don't want the same performance for each song, you want a totally different playing for each song.

Using follow is what you should be doing, not saving presets because that'll give you a unique drum performance.