Issue with assigning Seaboard + other midi controller to individual tracks because Seaboard needs all 16 midi channels

Hi, this question was beyond Apple's Logic support team so they suggested I post it here to see if someone can help!

 

I have a Roland Digital Piano and a Roli Seaboard 49.

I want to be able to assign each of these controllers to individual tracks in Logic and be able to play/record two different vst/plugins at the same time.

It would seem the only way to do this in Logic is to make the controllers output on specific midi channels and to assign those specific midi channels to each track.

However, as far as I can gather the seaboard needs to output on all 16 channels for it's MPE to work properly (which I need to be able to control MPE synths/plugins within Logic)

So that is the issue - how can I assign each keyboard to specific Logic tracks if the seaboard needs all 16 channels.

 

Logic is the only DAW that I've had this issue with. All others I have tried (including MainStage) allow you to assign the controllers themselves to specific tracks. I really want to use Logic though.

 

Does anybody have any ideas how to achieve what I'm after.

 

Thanks!

Logic has a MIDI input bottleneck which means that only 16 MIDI channels reach the sequencer. Two MIDI devices on the same MIDI channel will have their data merged.

 

You might be able to find a way to filter out an unused MIDI channel from the MPE controller, and use that for the second keyboard, perhaps, but it would depend on what the MPE controller is sending.

Like des99 suggested if you can make the Seaboard work with only 15 channels then you can use your other controller with the 16th channel.

Yeah I can't seem to find anywhere what each of the channels on the seaboard actually does lol

Also I just discovered that MainStage seems to actually cope with the seaboard + digital piano fine, which makes it all the more crazy that logic can't. If I'm not actually recording anything (meantime) - what advantages does logic have over mainstage? does mainstage give you all of the plugins/sounds that logic does?

Mainstage is architected differently and has been designed for this kind of live purpose (it doesn't have the environment, which is where this bottleneck occurs).

 

Logic isn't designed as a live playback tool, it's a DAW, and this environment limitation is a foundation piece of architecture since the Notator Logic 1.x. People have been asking for this to be improved for a looong time, but emApple seem pretty loathe to touch the environment. My guess would be this will finally be "fixed" when they rip out the environment completely...

 

Note - if you don't need to record, there are environment workarounds, should this be acceptable.

Thanks for that info. I'm just at the messing around stage currently, recording probably months down the line at which point I'll need to use a different daw it seems, but I guess if I'm not needing recording meantime then the environment workarounds for Logic would end up giving it the same functionality as MainStage so I may as well just use MainStage - unless there's any advantages?

Thanks

Yes, use Mainstage.

 

Or you can use Snoize's MIDI Monitor to snoop on the output of the MPE device to see whether you can free up a MIDI channel...

lol I am new to all this stuff and every time I ask a question somewhere I end up buying more kit Music production seems to be a fascinating rabbit hole.

So are you well experienced in all this? What does all your setup consist of and what kind of things do you do with it?

Me? I started using Logic 1.x in 1993 (and had been using it's predecessor, Creator/Notator for some years before that), as well as being a founder member of the original online user groups for Logic and a beta tester. So yes, I consider myself experienced...

 

As for what kinds of things I do with it... well, it's a music tool, innit?

lol yip that qualifies as experienced! One other quick question - is there any way to export recorded performances in mainstage to mp3 (or smaller file size than the default wav etc). Want to be able to pass the saved files around, is my only option to get an audio converting piece of software? Not overly fussed about lossless audio so mp3 would likely be fine. Or does a mac have a 'record what you hear' function maybe? (I'm new to macs)

what advantages does logic have over mainstage? does mainstage give you all of the plugins/sounds that logic does?

The advantages are that in Logic you can record and edit audio and MIDI data. But otherwise yes, both share pretty much the same plugins.

Roli Seaboards use multiple MIDI channels to allow polyphonic pitch bending and (channel) aftertouch. This of course requires instruments which can respond to multichannel MIDI to play the same sound. This is a feature that was originally used back in the 80s for guitar synths, with each string on it's own MIDI channel. It was called MIDI Mono mode.

 

You don't need to use multiple channels if all you care about is polyphonic aftertouch...that is supported on a single channel. You do need multiple channels for polyphonic pitch bend or any of the other gestures that the Roli supports.

 

Now here's the good news. You can define how many channels are in use. So just don't choose all 16, problem solved. Attaching a shot from a Roli manual showing only the first ten channels in use.

 

 

EDIT Links to a Roli support pages about setup in Logic

 

Setup in Logic with any multitimbral instrument

 

Use with Logic instruments

Sounds like an ideal solution!

Hi, this question was beyond Apple's Logic support team so they suggested I post it here to see if someone can help!

 

I have a Roland Digital Piano and a Roli Seaboard 49.

I want to be able to assign each of these controllers to individual tracks in Logic and be able to play/record two different vst/plugins at the same time.

It would seem the only way to do this in Logic is to make the controllers output on specific midi channels and to assign those specific midi channels to each track.

However, as far as I can gather the seaboard needs to output on all 16 channels for it's MPE to work properly (which I need to be able to control MPE synths/plugins within Logic)

So that is the issue - how can I assign each keyboard to specific Logic tracks if the seaboard needs all 16 channels.

 

Logic is the only DAW that I've had this issue with. All others I have tried (including MainStage) allow you to assign the controllers themselves to specific tracks. I really want to use Logic though.

 

Does anybody have any ideas how to achieve what I'm after.

 

Thanks!

 

I don't own a ROLI device but I was helping someone here with this same issue. He wanted to MIDI record 2 MPE devices at the same time.

After seeing his data in the Logic project he sent me, ROLI said it can use up to 16 midi channels, but after reviewing what he gave me, I didn't see all 16 midi channels being use at once.

Let's suppose that's true, what isn't true is the ROLI device can't use all 128 CC numbers.

So what I did was to make it easy (where you should reassign the CC on the ROLI device), I readjust the CC numbers coming into Logic.

I cabled to original playing to an instrument (Sampler is MPE aware), but then I cabled to a macro I created to re-adjust the CC numbers so I can MIDI record both MPE devices on one track.

Now you can playback that one track but only when you use the 2nd part of the macro, I split it back into the CC numbers that was captured on the ROLI device when you MIDI recorded the process.

And you can eventfully split the single MIDI region back into it's original MPE state.

 

Here's a sample of what I did.

 

Now while this works, the next thing you're going to want which Logic doesn't have is a MPE MIDI Editor.

Nobody is going to MIDI record anything spot on, you're going to want to clean up or enhance your recorded MPE MIDI.

 

If ROLI doesn't have a MPE MIDI Editor, it's a short coming with ROLI.

 

Review the ROLI documentation, read up on The Environment in Logic to get what you need, but it is possible to do.

Yeah I can't seem to find anywhere what each of the channels on the seaboard actually does lol

Youcan actually adjust the Seaboards’ MPE to less than 16 Channels - not in front of mine amt but I recall that it is possible.

 

I see enossified beat me to it.