MikeRobinson Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Magically, Logic knows about all of the instrument names in "Bank #0" of my Kross keyboard, but it doesn't seem to be able to do the same for all the rest of them. Is there anything that I can do to cause Logic to load the names from the other banks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Logic doesn't "load" names from synths (it could do this a long time ago with SoundDiver, but that was pre-OSX). So you've probably installed a multi-instrument that already contains the names from bank 0. Check the multi-instrument object in the environment and see if there are patch names for any other banks in it. If not, you'll have to find a better version, or copy/paste in the names yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 Okay, so what you're saying is that Logic actually didn't retrieve the patch names from the instrument itself. (Well, superficially it certainly seemed to.) Is there a way for Logic to retrieve this information from the instrument? Just curious now ... Or, are there available pre-existing lists for "well-known instruments?" Taking a crash-course right now in "multi-instruments!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 You can't easily transfer the names directly from the instrument, but the lists of names are out there. Sometimes not easy to find, but they do exist. From there it's pretty much copy+paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Okay, so what you're saying is that Logic actually didn't retrieve the patch names from the instrument itself. (Well, superficially it certainly seemed to.) No. By default a multi-instrument is probably populated with standard GM MIDI patch names, so perhaps that's what you're seeing. Is there a way for Logic to retrieve this information from the instrument? Just curious now ... Like I said above, in Logic 1.x-5.x you could do this, but the software and mechanisms to do this never translated over to OSX for various reasons. There is no automatic way now for Logic to query and retrieve patch names from any one of hundreds of unique models of device. Or, are there available pre-existing lists for "well-known instruments?" People do them for instruments they have, and often make them available - googling is your best bet probably. There are many places you can get patch lists - they are often listed in the PDF manual, for instance, or online on the manufacturer's websites etc - you can copy/paste these into a text editor, tidy them up, and copy/paste them into the relevant multi-instrument bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 "Well, now, isn't this very interesting." No one ever made it their business to accumulate such a list? Manufacturers didn't, either? Wow. I guess that I "simply. assumed" that this sort of thing would by now be something that was "completely standardized." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volovicg Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 What instrument are you using - make /model ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Okay, so what you're saying is that Logic actually didn't retrieve the patch names from the instrument itself. (Well, superficially it certainly seemed to.) My guess is that those are just the default "General MIDI" patch names. If you want to build your own multi instrument you first need to figure out the format for the bank change for your particular synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 No one ever made it their business to accumulate such a list? Manufacturers didn't, either? Usually it's somewhere in the unit's documentation which may be printed on paper (which is bad) or a PDF and even then, there is no standard format for this, so you might have to do a bit of cleanup before you get the proper names. Some manufacturers have the raw lists for download, others like to keep their own ecosystem free of intruders who dare to address their holy devices from another machine. Also, time has moved on since the 90s and while not vanished completely, the demand for external MIDI gear has diminished substantially, and with it the hoops that you had to jump through to get proper patch names displayed in your DAW, so the lists generated by dedicated users may not be so easily available anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Okay, so what you're saying is that Logic actually didn't retrieve the patch names from the instrument itself. (Well, superficially it certainly seemed to.) Indeed there's no way for Logic to retrieve that information, you have to enter it manually. What seems to have been retrieved (bank zero) is just a standard General MIDI voice list. Manufacturers generally distribute voice lists in the form of PDFs, but they are often challenging to find. I have spent a great deal of time entering external instrument patch names for clients and the first step was always to try to locate the PDF voice list. Sometimes you have to hunt down Japanese websites for those documents. If you're lucky enough to find a voice list, then you can copy/paste one bank of patch names at a time into Logic's patch name window. You may then have to find the bank change data and enter that into the "Define Custom Bank Message" window. It's all a rather cryptic process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 It's a Korg Kross I assume; no idea if the different models have different sound sets. It's not completely unlikely that there is already a multi instrument. If there isn't one yet we could try to build one together and make it available for download. Korg usually is quite good in documenting their stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 we could try to build one together and make it available for download. Korg usually is quite good in documenting their stuff. I found the voice list: https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/download/files/38a498de9387b0d3ec8009b47069c9de.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3DKROSS2_VNL_EFGSJ2.pdf&response-content-type=application%2Fpdf%3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I found the voice list: Yep, generally speaking, at least with reasonably modern gear, a bit of googling will usually give you the patch names list, and a bit of copy/paste and sometimes some text editor cleanup is all you really need to do to get the names in, as mentioned above. There are other methods, such as using a editor software to retrieve the patch names for the synth and you can usually then copy/paste/export them from there, or you can even resort to a bit of OCR if necessary. Usually the hardest bit in all this is figuring out the bank change data format, particularly if it's something custom, and/or dealing with the inherent bank limitation of the multi-instrument object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Here's another problem: The multi instruments have a limited name length (I think 15 characters); the names in the Kross are sometimes significantly longer (I've found one with 22 characters). So the names will have to be edited to be clear; otherwise we're ending up with this: Kross Grand Pia Kross Grand Pia instead of this: Kross Grand Piano 1 Kross Grand Piano 2 which can be a bit confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Yes, the world has moved on since these features were developed for Logic 1.x. Unfortunately, the environment has not moved along with it... *sigh* It would be nice to have an external instrument plugin (with or without audio too) that also included bank/program change support with custom bank changes and names (done *properly*), linked to the track inspector, with a decent interface but one can dream... Like I say, you may need to do a bit of text editor massaging on the names if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Usually the hardest bit in all this is figuring out the bank change data format, particularly if it's something custom, and/or dealing with the inherent bank limitation of the multi-instrument object. When necessary I have created multiple multi-instruments for the additional banks for example when using Roland rack synths in order to access more than 16 banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 It would be nice to have an external instrument plugin (with or without audio too) that also included bank/program change support with custom bank changes and names (done *properly*), linked to the track inspector, with a decent interface but one can dream... Use scripter. Example Scripter code here Now while you can make a drop down list from a voice list from a synth, you're probably better off just creating a drop down list based on favorites. That way the list is small yet you can add as you go along. This way you can also included the name of the synth in the drop down list along side the preset name. In my opinion, having a full voice list when it's already on the synth doesn't make sense to just duplicate it again, just create a favorites list instead on the scripter drop down list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Use scripter. I did do, when I was first exploring options in the early days of Scripter. While it's do-able, it's not very elegant (I haven't looked at your example, BTW), and it still doesn't negate my desire to have bank/program change functionality built properly into the external instrument object, because you lose those functions from the track inspector etc as well. In fact, one of my experimental projects to explore was creating a third-party AU plugin to basically replace what the external instrument plugin does, but with proper handling and display of banks/patch names etc. Trouble is, what normally happens with Logic is I wait for *years* for a feature that seems surely will land any day, and the time I eventually think it's been years now, it's never going to happen, and start work on something, it lands in the next Logic version making that effort pointless... it's happened to me more than once, and it often turns me off developing a custom solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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