danyg Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Recently I had more jobs in editing audio for video/movie and I learned about a feature from the video guys that doesn’t seem to exist in the audio world. When we bounce/commit a region we basically get what we see. If I commit a region trimmed to 5 seconds I basically get a new 5 seconds file (exception reverb, delay fx) In video they can choose the "handles” preference. One can commit more than the visible audio (the trimmed region) You can choose f.ex. 5 seconds before and after the visible region to give your partner more margin to make cuts. The same time when he gets an AAF session the region is trimmed correctly without playing the "handles" by default. What are your thought? Who has any experience to share with me? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Use the Marquee tool to select what you want to bounce then press Command-J (J as in "Join"): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyg Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 thank you David - it's nearly what I was talking about the new region should be trimmed automatically to the length of the old region - so that the session with all the clips/regions looks exactly that same but with some "hidden content" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Then I'm afraid I'm not understanding what you want. Do you mean that the audio file should be longer, but the audio region stay the same? If that's what you mean then no, that's not possible. What is the goal, if what you're adding before and after the region is silence anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Not silence, but original audio. You get some leeway to change fades, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Oh ok thanks Christian. Then you can use Audio File > Optimize File in the Project Audio Browser: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Not really. The idea is to BIP a Region which is part of a longer file, and the BIP contains the actual Region plus maybe 1sec at the start and at rhe end which can be revealed if I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Not really. The idea is to BIP a Region which is part of a longer file, and the BIP contains the actual Region plus maybe 1sec at the start and at rhe end which can be revealed if I want to. Optimize keeps the region and trims the audio file leaving the desired number of miilseconds before and after the region boundaries, so unless you need to print effect plugins at the same time, it accomplishes the same goal? That’s why I asked Dany what the ultimate goal is. That information would help to figure out an appropriate workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyg Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 example: the video editor cuts from scene 1 "building explosion" far away..... to a close up scene 2 while the tale of the bomb (scene 1) should be going on... but oviously the audio decay (scene 1) is cuted with the video "scene 2" too. The video editor doesn't care about the sound in that situation !!! He just cuts images. Now the video editor does an export AAF for the sounddesigner. He can choose in the export preferences of the video software to add a few seconds of original audio beyond all the regions he has trimmed. If the session contains 1245 regions, all those regions will have a few seconds of original audio before and after. The sounddesigner can then restore the audio (bomb scene 1) correctly and do his work, fades, fx, etc... He does not have ask for additional audio files from the original camera audio signal. I learned about this feature (in the video world) 3 days ago and I told that person that we audio guys bounce in place the regions... what you see is what you get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Ok, I understand, however my question is, what goal are YOU trying to accomplish when doing this in Logic? Have you experimented with the Optimize feature I suggested? It trims your audio files to the region boundaries, leaving 5 seconds (in my example screenshot) before and after the region boundaries. That sounds like what you're looking for, except there's no bouncing in place needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyg Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 however my question is, what goal are YOU trying to accomplish I'm trying to satisfy the video guy ... because he thinks that we can send and resend the same AAF session 5 times keeping the visual aspect. If an audio track had 45 regions in the original video session it should not be 1 audio region later because I bounced it in place. He just want to stay as UN-destructive as long as possible. I'm just collecting thouhts and data about that specific subject. There seems to be a gap between the two worlds. Have you experimented with the Optimize feature I suggested? I will, not yet, but it seems to be a solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Because I edit some video now, not professionally, I can relate to this issue. In audio world we can have hundreds of tracks no problem that’s how a project looks like but it becomes cumbersome with video editing. Your video guy probably tries to limit the audio tracks and wants to fit everything on one or two tracks, region after region but wants to extend the audio if needed later on as you said for a tail. I too would like to know practical solution for this but can live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 I will, not yet, but it seems to be a solution Hey Dany, have you tried it yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyg Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Oh ok thanks Christian. Then you can use Audio File > Optimize File in the Project Audio Browser: Optimize.png the optimise option is only available for the parent (original) audio. when I choose a single region it's greyed out. That would have been the solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 the optimise option is only available for the parent (original) audio. when I choose a single region it's greyed out. That would have been the solution But that's how it's supposed to work. You can optimize only an audio file, which trims the audio file to the size of the region plus for example 1 second before the start and 5 seconds after the end. So let's say you have a 20 seconds recording where you count the seconds 1, 2, 3, 4 etc... until 20. You trim an audio region so you hear only 7, 8. You optimize the parent audio file with a 1 second Additional Preservation setting. You are left with your original 7, 8 region but the audio file now goes 6, 7, 8, 9. You can reveal the 6 and/or the 9 by dragging the lower left and/or right corners of the region. Isn't that the functionality you were looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Not quite. The idea is this: I have a handful of Regions in a Project, from various (long) source files. I want to give them as, say, an AAF, to the editor/mixer/collaborator in a form which: a) gives them enough audio to fill the actual Regions, b) plus some handle length at Region tops and ends that's yet hidden which they can work with if they want to refine my fades c) spares them from the rest of the 1h football footage that I only used 5secs of and d) does not change my local audio files in any way This is the usual workflow in the video world. However, in Logic - AAF copies the entire audio file (violates rule c) - BIP, Bounce... and Convert Region to New Audio FIle don't include handle length (violating rule b) - Optimize deletes any (yet) unused material from my precious source file (violating rule d) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 - Optimize deletes any (yet) unused material from my precious source file (violating rule d) Then you could first duplicate the entire project folder, then optimize the audio files in the new project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 In theory, yes. In the real world this is insane, scattering copies of entire projects all over the place, and then optimizing the copies, which all takes time and space, and still wrecks my 1h football atmo on the Audio Library drive because I was 'smart' enough to not copy it into the project folder when I first used it. Not feasible in a modern production environment where quickly spitting out an AAF of the current state should be a 3min operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 In theory, yes. In the real world this is insane I see, well at least there's a way to do it even if it's not the most streamlined workflow. But yes I hear what you're saying, and I definitely agree that "additional preservation" should be an option added to all forms of bounce and exports functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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