TrueToons Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I have a project with 24 tracks, all 3rd party plugins (UVI Orchestra Suite). I have been drawing in region based expression automation (in the piano roll), and suddenly for 2 instruments (new regions), expression has no effect on the playback. it sounds exactly the same at 0 as at 127 for both. Both instruments happen to exist in MIDI Channel 2. Both have prior automation that responds as expected. When I went through the earlier automation, I saw that the expression automation in the first region for flute was written to MIDI Channel 1 (but it still worked). Thinking this might be part of the problem, I recreated the automation on MIDI Channel 2 and deleted the Channel 1 automation, but that did not resolve the problem in the later region. All the other automation (as well as all the note events) for the two tracks IS on MIDI Channel 2. There is a gap of 3 bars (in both instruments) between the region where the automation works, and the one where it fails. Any ideas? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 Update: this is happening on almost ALL tracks, on any MIDI Channel, beginning in regions from bar 41. Expression automation doesn't change the sound/volume at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Not sure I understand your problem, but if you want all midi on the track to be sent on channel 2 to the instrument, you set it in the track inspector... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 More info: The places where this is occurring is when there are notes at the very beginning of the region (but not in every such region). I can control the expression AFTER that opening edge of the region. If I extend the left edge of the region, I can control the expression (however, this is not an option if the region abuts the preceding one). Is some unseen automation info carrying over from previous settings into the beginning of the next region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 Yes, I have set the MIDI Channel in the inspector (I've tried channel 2, which is where all the note events are for that particular track, and I've tried all, as well as those combos along with the channel the automation is in: any, 2, 1, etc.) I have just found that I can seem to adjust the expression AFTER the beginning of the region, but that leaves me short when a note begins AT the beginning of the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 One more tidbit: The issue doesn't occur in the FIRST region on the track that contains expression automation, even when a note starts at the beginning of the region. It is only when the note starts at the left edge of the region, AFTER that automation has been applied in a preceding region on that track. That seems to support the idea that some message/info is carrying over into the next region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 ...s some unseen automation info carrying over from previous settings into the beginning of the next region? The instruments stays in the state of the last received expression event until it receives a new value, so same or different regions doesn't matter ? Still not sure I get your problem though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 The instrument is not responding to the first automation point in the region (at the beginning of the region), when the note is also at the beginning of the region. The expression automation is not effective until the second point in the automation lane of the region (when a note event also occurs at the beginning of the region). If that second point is nine notes in, for example, I can drag the line (between the first and second points) all the way up or down and it has no effect on any of those nine notes. So it does NOT seem to be responding to the new value in that case. I have determined that if I change the final value in the preceding region, the new region is actually responding to THAT value (not to the new initial value I have set in the new region). It's pretty specific, I think, but I have a LOT of regions in this piece with a note event at the very beginning, so it's quite troublesome if I can't figure out how to discontinue/override the value from the preceding region. I have placed an automation point at the end of the preceding region (as opposed to leaving the line open at the end), but the result is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I think I would need to see some screenshots to understand I'm afraid. But if you want the instrument to play a note beginning at a certain expression level, you need to send it that expression value before hitting the note of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Do you have chase set ing enabled? Perhaps it would help troubleshooting if uploaded (part of) the project including your issue occurence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Thank you for your responses. I've been away from this for a few days. I'm attaching screen shots and further explanations of the issue, along with a "miniature" project reproducing it. For the example project, I have used a Logic Pro native instrument plugin and have made all the note velocities the same, to eliminate that variable and isolate the expression automation. The issue occurs when I start the playhead at the beginning of a region with a note at the beginning (in the example project, this would be at the beginning of Region 2, at measure 8, or at the beginning of Region 3). The screenshots show the automation values for "Region 1" and "Region 2." In Screen Shots 1 and 2 I have changed the initial expression value in Region 2, to near 0 and then to 127, respectively. The playback (volume), when starting at Region 2 is exactly the same whether the initial value is 0 or 127. In Screen Shot 3 I have changed the last value in Region 1 to minimal, leaving Region 2 at max, but now the playback, in Region 2 is almost inaudible (as determined by the ending value in the preceding region). Thus, when I start the playhead at the beginning of Region 2, the expression value is that from the end of Region 1, regardless of how the initial value is set in Region 2. Region 2 plays loud (but should be soft) Region 2 plays at the same volume as in Screen Shot 1 Region 2 plays soft (but should be loud) If I start playback in the preceding region, it processes the automation correctly in the following one. However, I have places where I have 16 or 20 (or more) bars where an instrument is out, so starting playback in the preceding region to get an accurate reflection of current automation would be impractical, to say the least. I have also set the MIDI chase preferences to include all, and tried several different settings there. Ok, well I'll have to figure out how to attach the example project. Here are the screenshots, in the meantime. Thanks again for your time and expertise! (I'm way new at this!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Here is the Example Logic project: Expression Automation Example Project.zip See preceding post for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution JakobP Posted July 27, 2021 Solution Share Posted July 27, 2021 Tried your project, and like Atlas007 guessed it's the midi chase that is messing with you (I've seen weird behavior with it before). Turn off midi chase for Control Change in project settings and it seems to behave here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueToons Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 That has solved the problem, JakobP!! (I had tried several changes to the MIDI chase settings, but CC was clearly the one that was causing my issue.) Thank you again for sticking with me on this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 You're welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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