Bumsi Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Hi, I want to record mono percussion overdubs and ideas while on the road, so I took my mbp m1 logic 10.6 with me and a pair of studio headphones - Now, the internal mic is fine for this, but latency is all over the place. Only 2 audio tracks, no plugins, low latency mode, 32 buffer… This would be such a great way to work - but the latency is def over 4ms and I feel its changing up as well - Feels like 2001 ok my powerbook g3 all over again… Any ideas/ workarounds? Thanks mucho, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 How many ms does Logic report in audio preferences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Hi, I want to record mono percussion overdubs and ideas while on the road, so I took my mbp m1 logic 10.6 with me and a pair of studio headphones -Now, the internal mic is fine for this, but latency is all over the place. Only 2 audio tracks, no plugins, low latency mode, 32 buffer… This would be such a great way to work - but the latency is def over 4ms and I feel its changing up as well - Feels like 2001 ok my powerbook g3 all over again… Any ideas/ workarounds? Thanks mucho, Robert Mine is 8ms and i don’t hear it. I guess latency is a very personal thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 no plugins, low latency mode, No need for LLM if you have no latency-inducing plugins. You're not gonna get lower latency by engaging that button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 If you can't get what you want out of the inbuilt audio on a MBP, get a decent audio interface, and you can direct monitor rather than monitoring through Logic, so you can sidestep any tracking latency issues. To be honest, when you say "the internal mic is fine for tracking percussion overdubs", I'm like... "really!?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 is software monitoring on? if so, try turning it off, and take one earphone off, listen live and to whatever you're adding to... (if this is way off the mark... it won't be my first time lol. anyway, just a thought)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 If you can't get what you want out of the inbuilt audio on a MBP, get a decent audio interface, and you can direct monitor rather than monitoring through Logic, so you can sidestep any tracking latency issues. Yes, „really“ - it does sound that good- To be honest, when you say "the internal mic is fine for tracking percussion overdubs", I'm like... "really!?" hmm, I already own antelope orion3, and several portable and notso portable rme interfaces, along with decent Mics, that were manufactured here in Germany, companies called Neumann and Gefell, so what should I get now - being on the road and not wanting to bring: cables, mics, stands, clutter…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 is software monitoring on? if so, try turning it off, and take one earphone off, listen live and to whatever you're adding to... (if this is way off the mark... it won't be my first time lol. anyway, just a thought)... yes this is has been the best strategy so far, and it made me wonder if there isnt a more elegant solution around, for example a little soft like soundflower bypassing the audio flow thru logic and making (semi) direct monitoring possible… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 hmm, I already own antelope orion3, and several portable and notso portable rme interfaces, along with decent Mics, that were manufactured here in Germany, companies called Neumann and Gefell, so what should I get now - being on the road and not wanting to bring: cables, mics, stands, clutter…? If it works for you, great. I had no idea of your gear, skill set or requirements from the words in your post. I was just surprised, that's all, and thought a dedicated interface would probably have more predictable performance. It's not often you see a Macbook micing up a source, outside of just recording scrap-book singer/songwriter demos or something. I've always found inbuilt audio on MacOS to have pretty good latency performance in general. I wonder if this is different with the M1 Macs? I haven't seen a lot of chatter about this in the Mac/Audio online communities... and it made me wonder if there isnt a more elegant solution around, for example a little soft like soundflower bypassing the audio flow thru logic and making (semi) direct monitoring possible… That depends on whether this latency is being introduced by the audio hardware or OS (in which case, it doesn't matter what software you are using), or Logic itself, which seems unlikely given the minimal project you're running it in. It's probably worth doing some tests... You can also check out the Rogue Amoeba stuff like Audio Hijack, Loopback as other options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 hmm, I already own antelope orion3, and several portable and notso portable rme interfaces, along with decent Mics, that were manufactured here in Germany, companies called Neumann and Gefell, so what should I get now - being on the road and not wanting to bring: cables, mics, stands, clutter…? If it works for you, great. I had no idea of your gear, skill set or requirements from the words in your post. I was just surprised, that's all, and thought a dedicated interface would probably have more predictable performance. It's not often you see a Macbook micing up a source, outside of just recording scrap-book singer/songwriter demos or something. I've always found inbuilt audio on MacOS to have pretty good latency performance in general. I wonder if this is different with the M1 Macs? I haven't seen a lot of chatter about this in the Mac/Audio online communities... and it made me wonder if there isnt a more elegant solution around, for example a little soft like soundflower bypassing the audio flow thru logic and making (semi) direct monitoring possible… That depends on whether this latency is being introduced by the audio hardware or OS (in which case, it doesn't matter what software you are using), or Logic itself, which seems unlikely given the minimal project you're running it in. It's probably worth doing some tests... You can also check out the Rogue Amoeba stuff like Audio Hijack, Loopback as other options... yeah, I was also wondering if maybe the mbp mic array and its real time sound improvement software was creating latency? There must be smth goin on in the background there, at certain distances, especially soft sounding percussion sounds so surprisingly good… I‘ll do some loopback tests when I am back home. thx for the reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 That's a good point - the newer internal mic audio processing on these laptops might indeed have some real-time performance penalties. Let us know what you find out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 Hey, didnt have much downtime to do a thorough latency check, but been experimenting with Amoeba's AudioHijack Soft and its promising as it is offering direct "wiring" of audio sources with least possible latency, However, there is still audible latency and it is also not consistent. This hints to some audio repair going on in real time for the mic array. I will probably get a ZoomH6 for this task, as it does exactly this, but the dream of having an all in one little music computer I have had since 2000 - and I will def continue this quest, cause I think this would be a real gamechanger. There is a reason why most creators I know still prefer hardware and I think it is because of fast and tangible access. Fiddling around with little menus on a tiny screen might be part of the music making experience to some people, more power to them. To me music is sacred. It takes decades, my whole life to learn, daily practice, dedication, being in the moment and full there, my whole attention, to do it justice. Music Technology, of any kind, if it demands any extra attention, switching away from "being in the moment" the brain in performance mode- is taking away from the music. I do not see the point. (Except for product sales). I really think that there is a serious demand for simple, reliable solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 Hey, didnt have much downtime to do a thorough latency check, but been experimenting with Amoeba's AudioHijack Soft and its promising as it is offering direct "wiring" of audio sources with least possible latency, However, there is still audible latency and it is also not consistent. This hints to some audio repair going on in real time for the mic array. I will probably get a ZoomH6 for this task, as it does exactly this, but the dream of having an all in one little music computer I have had since 2000 - and I will def continue this quest, cause I think this would be a real gamechanger. There is a reason why most creators I know still prefer hardware and I think it is because of fast and tangible access. Fiddling around with little menus on a tiny screen might be part of the music making experience to some people, more power to them. To me music is sacred. It takes decades, my whole life to learn, daily practice, dedication, being in the moment and full there, my whole attention, to do it justice. Music Technology, of any kind, if it demands any extra attention, switching away from "being in the moment" the brain in performance mode- is taking away from the music. I do not see the point. (Except for product sales). I really think that there is a serious demand for simple, reliable solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Using Logic is more in the territory of 'recording' not 'performing'. I think you have a problem in your system somewhere. Logic is very simple and reliable, virtually latency free with latest hardware. You sure you don't have a latency inducing plugin on your stereo out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 when I record myself playing an instrument, I would call that a performance. I have never inserted a plugin effect on the stereo out, and am not really planning to do so in the future;). The hardware configuration I use m1mbp 16gb 1tb for the mobile setup is afaik the latest harware available. It is very far from latency free. But then again, no solution - besides Radar, PTHD or an Analog Board -is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I have an M1 MB Air and will try to record something with the inbuilt mic testing the latency. I will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 ok cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Sorry, took me a few days. Yes I can confirm there is a bit of latency with the internal mic, even at 64 samples. It is much more noticeable than at 256 samples with my Focusrite 2i2. (i don't notice it with the Focusrite at 256) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 How many ms does Logic report in audio preferences? This was never answered I think ? There's a latency issue with mbp speakers, see the link, I wonder if this could be a factor still on the M1 machines ? New MacBook Pro Touchbar version: Latency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 There's a latency issue with mbp speakers, see the link, That's some crazy numbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 It ‘feels’ like there is a limiter installed on stereo out that induces latency when using the internal mic. Maybe a safety measure? It is ok for facetime calls etc. but not for recording music for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 yeah smth like that. Whatever it all is, I am getting rid of this mbp m1, whatever the improvements may be certain processing power demanding tasks - the way it feels, it's no step up from my mbp 2013. Maybe this helps someone who is comnsidering a new computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Did you check your roundtrip figures ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 yeah smth like that. Whatever it all is, I am getting rid of this mbp m1, whatever the improvements may be certain processing power demanding tasks - the way it feels, it's no step up from my mbp 2013. Maybe this helps someone who is comnsidering a new computer. To be fair, the internal mic was not meant to be used for recording music. I wouldn’t use it even if it would not have any latency. (Maybe could be solved with a software update) This machine otherwise is ridiculously powerful and i recommend it. Way more powerful than a computer from 2013. Just load up a few patches from Alchemy on your old computer and start to write a full song. You will run out of processing power soon an your older machine. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 yeah smth like that. Whatever it all is, I am getting rid of this mbp m1, whatever the improvements may be certain processing power demanding tasks - the way it feels, it's no step up from my mbp 2013. Maybe this helps someone who is comnsidering a new computer. Your disappointment from a mic that wasn't meant for quality recordings doesn't warrant you saying the M1 is not a step up from a 2013 laptop. That mic was designed for Facetime or Zoom chats, nothing else. Anybody that does field recordings, with quality in mind, does not use a built-in mic from a laptop. You always use a dedicated mic and interface, or even a USB mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Thank you for telling me how "anybody does field recordings". Not quite reading the initially quite precisely articulated problem and answering with some rather untrue generalization (Sorry, I seen Meshell Ndgeocello record a whole lot of demos into her Mbp Mic, which then ended on the album and then some) says everything about you, nothing about me - so I am not offended. You are simply adding nothing to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 To be fair to the new M1 machines. They probably ‘enhanced’ the internal mic (compression, limiter etc) to prevent feedback and have the best experience with the in built mic for the purpose of what they intended it to be used for (facetime,zoom etc. ) unfortunately these improvements crippled it if you try to use it as a field recorder, if latency is important. If we give Apple feedback, they might be able to fix it in the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumsi Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Mania, I agree, yes that is exactly what I was implying. I actually think the mic array (it is 3 I believe) sounds fine, it is just that processing, which in itself works amazing - but as so often with user-friendly design, be it a Ui or background processes - would be very interesting and useful to find out how to turn it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 says everything about you, nothing about me - so I am not offended. So tell me, what does it say about me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clandise Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Go to preferences> audio>devices and set your recording delay to equal and opposite number as the I/O buffer size (eg, if I/O buffer is 128, set recording delay to -128) then go to preferences> audio>general and select "input monitoring only for selected track" and you will be able to decide whether to monitor or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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