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Export stems with bus/send effects


sytrusze

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Hey guys,

 

How can I export the individual tracks with the bus/send effects printed on them without having to export all tracks manually 1 by 1 (solo-ing each track)?

 

This is an example:

 

2013521423_Screenshot2021-09-20at16_44_11.thumb.png.e50a5370a482e8b5fbedb838f194006e.png

 

1161103155_Screenshot2021-09-20at16_44_27.png.051e7f07cbc3a3bcdac44e9d732ce2ac.png

 

598852133_Screenshot2021-09-20at16_44_49.thumb.png.74493b2718ba27ab0f7a9b3a0cc72950.png

 

I have this snare receiving reverb from the Aux channel. Now when I bounce "All tracks as audio files" it bounces the snare without the reverb.

 

Thank you!

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Damn. How do you guys do this then?

 

I have about 200 projects with over 40 tracks per project, all using sends/busses.

 

Now, my clients want the stems (with the bus/send effects printed of course). So you are telling me that the only way for me to get this done is by solo-ing each individual track and bounce it 1 by 1? :shock: :o

 

Can you imagine how time consuming this will be to do it manually

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Damn. How do you guys do this then?

I never do this, nor have I ever seen it done (or needed).

 

Now, my clients want the stems (with the bus/send effects printed of course).

Stems are not individual tracks, they are submixes of a group of instrumets: for example all drums, all vocals, all guitars, etc. a mix may typically be composed of somewhere between 4 and 6 or 7 stems, that you can send to a client so they can easily adjust the balance of a mix (a little more percussion, a little less vocals...), and it's fairly easy to export individually processed submixes in Logic.

 

Individual tracks on the other hand, normally don't need individual bus effects printed into individual bounce/exports. If you're bussing a track to an Aux to be processed that's generally because you're using the Aux to process a submix of several tracks, and the processed submix isn't equal to the mix of individually processed tracks. So sending individually processed tracks generally isn't needed . The only time I've exported individual tracks are for when I need another producer to do further recording, editing or mixing, and in that case either I send the Logic project file or I send individual raw (unprocessed) tracks to a mixing engineer.

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Clear on the stems clarification. Let's call it individual tracks from now on because that's what I was referring to.

 

...and the processed submix isn't equal to the mix of individually processed tracks.

 

Of course, this goes for let's say compression etc. but not for reverb, automated (low-pass) filters that you applied etc.

 

So sending individually processed tracks generally isn't needed

 

Maybe not for some, for me it's mandatory! I've been making music as a living for the past 10 years, with over 1000 clients that all asked for the stems (or individual tracks I should say). They don't want dry individual tracks, they want the effects to be printed on them. Sure, some want both dry AND wet but never only the dry versions. They want the individual tracks to sound identical to the mix that I did, or at least as close as possible so they can change the arrangement where needed in their own DAW.

 

Let me give you a simplified example:

I often use a low pass filter on the master channel that I automate for certain parts, e.g. a build-up. This affects all tracks obviously. Do you really want to send the individual tracks without the low pass filter and have the artist or their engineer spend hours on trying to replicate your automation effects? No, I would like to believe not. A low-pass filter is fairly easy to replicate, yes, but what about glitch/stutter effects on the master? There is no way they can exactly replicate that and you don't even WANT to them to. The individual tracks have to be as close to your mix as possible when being sent out, period.

 

Hard to believe I am the only person facing this issue

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Of course, this goes for let's say compression etc. but not for reverb, automated (low-pass) filters that you applied etc.

Actually yes, it does apply to EQ, reverb and automated filters etc.. albeit to a lesser extent. But the phase distortion on a non-linear EQ processing a sum of signals is not equal to the sum of the phase distortions created by a bunch of EQ processing individual signals. But ok, I get your point.

 

Let me give you a simplified example:

I often use a low pass filter on the master channel that I automate for certain parts, e.g. a build-up. This affects all tracks obviously. Do you really want to send the individual tracks without the low pass filter and have the artist or their engineer spend hours on trying to replicate your automation effects? No, I would like to believe not. A low-pass filter is fairly easy to replicate, yes, but what about glitch/stutter effects on the master? There is no way they can exactly replicate that and you don't even WANT to them to. The individual tracks have to be as close to your mix as possible when being sent out, period.

 

Hard to believe I am the only person facing this issue

Ok thanks for the example, that makes more sense, and indeed you're not the only one facing this issue, I've see this question asked many times, I've just never experienced the need for me or anyone else around me to do it in real life, most likely simply because we don't work with the same music genre. But now that you explain it I can understand better.

 

What I don't understand is, what is the recipient of the individual processed tracks doing with them? I suppose their choices are now limited. If they try compressing a track that has an automated low-pass filter on them, that's going to be quite challenging, or the compression won't sound the same throughout the whole track? If you apply reverb to a track that already has a stutter effect applied, the reverb will sustain in between the stuttered parts? If you apply compression, each individual slice will trigger the attack and release phase of the compressor?

 

So what are they doing? Creative choices? Editing? Volume balance and EQing? I'm in unfamiliar territory so I confess that I wouldn't really know how to work with individually processed tracks. Or maybe because you've sent both raw and processed exports, they can pick and choose which they'll keep and which they'll re-process?

 

If that's going to be your workflow, then perhaps consider putting the effects on the individual tracks rather than bussing the tracks to an Aux. You can always group the automation of effects if needed. You'll then be able to easily export individually processed tracks, and at least on the other hand when the recipient sums the tracks in their DAW they will get the exact same sound you're getting in Logic.

 

OR if at all possible, try to find working partners who use Logic (or ask your current working partner to use Logic) whenever possible, which would greatly simplify the entire workflow.

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First, to optimize your future projects for this type of export, change your template so it stays away from using sends as much as possible. Only plugins on single channels from now on, and no more bussing. Yes, this will be much more taxing to your computer, yes, you will be copying plugin settings back and forth like a madman once you begin adjusting reverb settings, but yours is a quite unusual use case.

 

To handle your existing projects, the only option is to solo a track and bounce the Stereo Out. Then the next track and bounce, then the next....

Yes, this will take ages, and a scripting tool like Keyboard Maestro which can help automate this to a degree will be a very good investment.

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Ok thanks for the example, that makes more send

Nice wordplay there :P

 

Okay back to seriousness. Thanks for understanding first of all, I think it might be a genre-difference indeed why you've never experienced any requests like this.

 

What I don't understand is, what is the recipient of the individual processed tracks doing with them?

It depends on the recipient, but mostly they like the have control of the arrangement. Leave certain instruments out or re-arrange on certain parts of the song, to match their vocals or lyrics is what most recipients purchase the individual tracks for. It gives them full control of the production, without compromising in terms of the original mix. Of course, like you said things like compression I always leave out when I bounce the individual tracks (unless I am also sending stems, complete drum bus for example but that's different).

 

So bottom line is: it doesn't even matter what they do with it. They just need the individual tracks to be as close as the original mix, so they have to do less work as possible.

 

I understand that back in the day this was different. Raw stems were sent out and a professional engineer did the mixing. But that's not how it works in 2021 anymore. The internet changed everything. Indie (home-studio) artist from all over the world with little to no mixing knowledge also purchase the individual tracks from me. They don't have an engineer that will make sure the final mix gets as close to the original. All they want is the individual tracks to be as close as identical to the orignal mix, that's all.

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First, to optimize your future projects for this type of export, change your template so it stays away from using sends as much as possible. Only plugins on single channels from now on, and no more bussing. Yes, this will be much more taxing to your computer, yes, you will be copying plugin settings back and forth like a madman once you begin adjusting reverb settings, but yours is a quite unusual use case.

 

To handle your existing projects, the only option is to solo a track and bounce the Stereo Out. Then the next track and bounce, then the next....

Yes, this will take ages, and a scripting tool like Keyboard Maestro which can help automate this to a degree will be a very good investment.

 

I've been doing it like this for 10 years now, but thank you kindly for your advice :P

Hence this topic, hoping there was a batch option for this.

 

but yours is a quite unusual use case.

I strongly disagree. Online producing changed the whole game, every "urban" producer needs this function in their live.

 

Pffffff.... :lol: that was completely unintentional! :lol:

:lol: :lol:

 

Ok and thanks for explaining in detail, I understand what you're saying now — and why you need that.

All good man, thank you for trying to help out!

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no pros i know or work with want individual tracks with effects printed. a mix engineer needs a simple source to work with; ie a vocal you may insist on eq'ing a certain way, but that engineer wants to tweak; that can't easily be done if there's already reverb added to the track.

 

get your tracks to sound the way you want. if a reverb or delay is, for example, essential to you... add that effect to that channel strip. alternately, send 2 versions of a track that has reverb or delay, so the final recipient has options (ie 'vocal 1', 'vocal 1 with FX'. again, hard to eq or compress a vocal, or add an amp, to a source that already has reverb. and so on.

 

it's almost 2022, but these fundamental things are correct, modern... and universal.

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no pros i know or work with want individual tracks with effects printed. a mix engineer needs a simple source to work with; ie a vocal you may insist on eq'ing a certain way, but that engineer wants to tweak; that can't easily be done if there's already reverb added to the track.

 

Firstyl: Like I mentioned earlier, these aren't pro's. These are indie home studio upcoming artist

 

Secondly: They don't need to mix it down further and my stems don't include vocals just instruments. They want control over the arrangement (individual tracks).

 

get your tracks to sound the way you want. if a reverb or delay is, for example, essential to you... add that effect to that channel strip. alternately, send 2 versions of a track that has reverb or delay, so the final recipient has options (ie 'vocal 1', 'vocal 1 with FX'.

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? I DO want to send 2 versions. 1 with and 1 without FX (dry and wet). I can batch export the dry, but not the wet.

 

 

"hard to eq or compress a vocal, or add an amp, to a source that already has reverb and so on"

Most definitely agree with you on that. But like I said, the individual tracks are being used to control the arrangement not mix. For the people that do want to control the mix, they can use the dry versions. Hope that makes sense.

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i really don't get it. are they adding vocals? then what? do they mix, or do you? what's the final goal here?

 

i collab online all the time (have currently songs out with singers from NY, L.A., italy, france). i send a track, they send their vocals, i mix.

 

what's your process? just trying to understand WHY they need individual files (unless they're doing the final mix, and you've said that's NOT the case).

 

anyway, you've been given a wealth of information, from some of the smartest people on this (generally smart) forum, and the reality is what it is.

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It's simple buddy.

 

They purchase the beat/production including the stems/individual tracks -> they import the stems/individual tracks -> record vocals to it -> take out / add in instruments, re-arrange it to their likings -> do slight mixing where needed -> send to master -> put out the song.

 

The goal is: I compose the production, the artist that purchases it and can do whatever they like to do with it. And hopefully, that artist places a major hit song of course :P That's all.

 

Anyway, you've been given a wealth of information, from some of the smartest people on this (generally smart) forum, and the reality is what it is.

I feel blessed, thanks everyone for their input!

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/20/2021 at 12:36 PM, sytrusze said:

Clear on the stems clarification. Let's call it individual tracks from now on because that's what I was referring to.

Of course, this goes for let's say compression etc. but not for reverb, automated (low-pass) filters that you applied etc.

Maybe not for some, for me it's mandatory! I've been making music as a living for the past 10 years, with over 1000 clients that all asked for the stems (or individual tracks I should say). They don't want dry individual tracks, they want the effects to be printed on them. Sure, some want both dry AND wet but never only the dry versions. They want the individual tracks to sound identical to the mix that I did, or at least as close as possible so they can change the arrangement where needed in their own DAW.

Let me give you a simplified example:

I often use a low pass filter on the master channel that I automate for certain parts, e.g. a build-up. This affects all tracks obviously. Do you really want to send the individual tracks without the low pass filter and have the artist or their engineer spend hours on trying to replicate your automation effects? No, I would like to believe not. A low-pass filter is fairly easy to replicate, yes, but what about glitch/stutter effects on the master? There is no way they can exactly replicate that and you don't even WANT to them to. The individual tracks have to be as close to your mix as possible when being sent out, period.

Hard to believe I am the only person facing this issue

I have the same situation! Could you solve it?

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3 hours ago, Pablo Caputto said:

I have the same situation! Could you solve it?

 

Unfortunately, no. I swindle between FL studio and Logic but as of right now, both Logic and FL haven't added this feature (yet). I've talked to an engineer from Image-line. What he told me was: "The idea is fairly simple, but the coding behind it is a lot more complicated."

I can't speak on that part, but I am still forced to bounce all my stems manually. It is what it is I'm afraid..

 

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3 hours ago, studioj said:

came across this recently:

Interesting. I haven't read the manual*, but the example he shows is a very simplistic stem export, where he's arranged his project like a media composer, where everything is in self-contained stems, and with no master bus plugins.

If you're that disciplined in your arrangements (and you kind of have to be with media work), stem exporting is fairly straightforward, and if I was doing a lot that type of process, I'd probably rig up a Keyboard Maestro macro to do the same job - eg, solo the first track stack, bounce it out, move on to the next track and repeat until everything was bounced.

It's more complex with pop arrangements where you are sharing FX, and you have master bus processing and other factors like dynamic sidechaining between tracks and sub-groups and so on, so stem export automation becomes more tricky. Often it's not the driving the software bit that's hard, it's figuring out what you need to include, with what stems, and assessing the differences between the original mix, and what the mix sounds like when you just combine the stems.

But I do agree that these kinds of automated workflow solutions for things you do frequently are highly beneficial - which is why I do so many of them. 🙂

*Edit: Yes, as suspected, he's basically doing exactly the same thing as I would do it using Keyboard Maestro - manipulating onscreen buttons (various things have to be enabled and visible so the software can "click" on buttons and extract locator positions and so on). He's basically pulling out parts of the screen and OCRing those screengrabs to pull out the text, from what I can see. All things you can do in KM too.

But worth the money for people that do this thing a lot, and don't have the time or ability to custom develop their own workflows, probably.

Edited by des99
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4 hours ago, studioj said:

came across this recently:

https://www.auto-bounce.com

not super cheap but maybe worth it to save time with this process. 

Indeed. At $ 199 it is rather quite pricey.

I would not buy it for the simple reason that I cannot rely on it possibly being broken with the next Logic update. That's not something I want to rely on in my professional environment. I know how easy it is to screw something up in Logic and I don't want another software controlling it that way. Perhaps I'm too old fashioned in that regard.

I have setup my own workflow where I do have to be disciplined about my project (I have to do that anyway) and setup special regions and such and then use Keyboard Maestro to play back the keystrokes I would have to do manually. I still have to be present while I'm bouncing out stems, but the clicks I have to do have gone from probably 25 down to 3 or 4.

EDIT: but it could prove viable to just save a version of the project, pack the stuff into stack folders (which we usually don't do because editing becomes iffy), bounce the stems and then delete that project file again.

So let me correct my initial scare and say: I think I may try this!

 

Edited by wonshu
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9 hours ago, sytrusze said:

Unfortunately, no. I swindle between FL studio and Logic but as of right now, both Logic and FL haven't added this feature (yet). I've talked to an engineer from Image-line. What he told me was: "The idea is fairly simple, but the coding behind it is a lot more complicated."

I can't speak on that part, but I am still forced to bounce all my stems manually. It is what it is I'm afraid..

Last night i did it that way.. I bounce all manually XD ssshhhxt haha

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/20/2021 at 5:13 PM, fisherking said:

no pros i know or work with want individual tracks with effects printed. a mix engineer needs a simple source to work with; ie a vocal you may insist on eq'ing a certain way, but that engineer wants to tweak; that can't easily be done if there's already reverb added to the track.

get your tracks to sound the way you want. if a reverb or delay is, for example, essential to you... add that effect to that channel strip. alternately, send 2 versions of a track that has reverb or delay, so the final recipient has options (ie 'vocal 1', 'vocal 1 with FX'. again, hard to eq or compress a vocal, or add an amp, to a source that already has reverb. and so on.

it's almost 2022, but these fundamental things are correct, modern... and universal.

As a pro with platinum and billboard chart topping records etc etc, the lack of this feature in Logic is one of the biggest ballaches in my work. I put what effects I want in my production - and am gonna give it to the mix engineer exactly how I've got it, sounding great. Unless they specifically want something dry. And this is not something new - The Edge has been printing his delays since the 80s so it can't get messed up in the mix etc. 

A lot of times I might have 8 different plugins on the stereo bus that are shaping my sound (vinyl effects, tape, eq, multiple reverbs, whatever). It's gonna eat so much CPU to put everything on every channel, and it's bad practise. The mix engineer is getting stems so they can have some control over levels, place the (dry) vocals, etc. But no way their gonna want to recreate my production where I've used dozens of different effects on busses and the stereo bus. Yes you can say putting 8 things through an eq is different to putting 8 things through 8 identical eqs - honestly it's never yet been different enough for me to care, when I import the wet stems back into a session it sounds like where I left the record at, whereas dry stems sounds nothing like it.

Literally about to waste a couple hours of my life dealing with exporting stems for a couple of records one by one yet again and was here searching to see if this feature exists yet again, and nope it's still not been fixed.

Please please please can Logic sort this out. Anyone I work with who uses Logic and has a similar modern workflow has this same problem. It can't be impossible to sort. This update would be worth a lot of money to me, and to a lot of my colleagues.

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On 1/27/2023 at 6:05 PM, KWL said:

As a pro with platinum and billboard chart topping records etc etc, the lack of this feature in Logic is one of the biggest ballaches in my work. I put what effects I want in my production - and am gonna give it to the mix engineer exactly how I've got it, sounding great. Unless they specifically want something dry. And this is not something new - The Edge has been printing his delays since the 80s so it can't get messed up in the mix etc. 

A lot of times I might have 8 different plugins on the stereo bus that are shaping my sound (vinyl effects, tape, eq, multiple reverbs, whatever). It's gonna eat so much CPU to put everything on every channel, and it's bad practise. The mix engineer is getting stems so they can have some control over levels, place the (dry) vocals, etc. But no way their gonna want to recreate my production where I've used dozens of different effects on busses and the stereo bus. Yes you can say putting 8 things through an eq is different to putting 8 things through 8 identical eqs - honestly it's never yet been different enough for me to care, when I import the wet stems back into a session it sounds like where I left the record at, whereas dry stems sounds nothing like it.

Literally about to waste a couple hours of my life dealing with exporting stems for a couple of records one by one yet again and was here searching to see if this feature exists yet again, and nope it's still not been fixed.

Please please please can Logic sort this out. Anyone I work with who uses Logic and has a similar modern workflow has this same problem. It can't be impossible to sort. This update would be worth a lot of money to me, and to a lot of my colleagues.

Preach brother! Same thing here, hence why I started this topic.

 

I kinda figured out a way in FL studio, it's a bit of a different workflow I have to get adjusted to but for Logic I still haven't found a solid solution. Fingers crossed for the future

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  • 3 months later...

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the main caveat to bouncing each track individually is that if you're using master bus processing like compression, limiting etc, the trackouts/stems will not phase cancel completely when compared against the stereo out version.

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  • 3 months later...

I finally tried the demo of auto-bounce last night, and it was flawless. Purchased it this morning... highly recommended!! had to set some key commands (they were all empty in my key commands setup anyway) and set up some things that were very quick.. and then boom, it printed all the stems I had checked in the setup window while I made tea. It put the smpte time and some other custom fields in each file name, and was basically identical to me sitting there for 20-30 min working out all this in front of the system. 

As someone with lots of experience with Keyboard Maestro, while it may be technically possible to do something similar, it would be outrageously difficult and not 100% reliable to achieve the same feature set which is deep (alt mixes, different formats, different start and end points... very deep). 

Anyway, feels very worth the $ to me. There is the risk of it breaking with updates, but it seems they have been fairly quick to update... and if you're a pro anyway, you're probably not jumping on the latest versions right away. I am looking forward to integrating this tool into my current projects. repetitive task automation rules!

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

On 9/20/2021 at 4:48 PM, sytrusze said:

Hey guys,

 

How can I export the individual tracks with the bus/send effects printed on them without having to export all tracks manually 1 by 1 (solo-ing each track)?

I have this snare receiving reverb from the Aux channel. Now when I bounce "All tracks as audio files" it bounces the snare without the reverb.

 

Thank you!

Hello, I had a similar problem, two guitar tracks that go to a mix bus where amp simulation and effect are applied. When exporting "All Tracks As Audio Files", those effects wasn't applied. Solution is to highlight those tracks (the two guitar tracks in my case), click "Create Track Stack" and then choose "Summing Stack", Logic will create a new summing track where you can apply your effects and more important will export it like a regular track. Hope can solve you problem too 🙂

Edited by matteolovatti
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