gibby Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 I believe that some issues related to starting at bar 0 have been resolved (like copying), but are there still issues with automation, etc that make it a bad idea to start at bar 0? Which issues remain? Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Yes, it's still a bad idea, as it can often cause unpredictable behaviours right across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Yes indeed, still a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibby Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 Thanks for the quick reply. I’ll check back in 4 years and hope we have LPXI with a universal fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 what's the benefit of starting before measure 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMLZ Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 The Step Sequencer still misbehaves. It won't move for the first bar each time you press play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digichild Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Starting a song with a kick on audio kills part of the transient after bouncing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrememixing Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 And plugins like Melodyne won't work in the -bars. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibby Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 what's the benefit of starting before measure 1? If you have a count-in before the song and you want the bar count to still be sensible for the rest of the song, it would be nice to be able to do this. Instead, I have to start at bar 4 with the count-in and set a marker for that to be the start of the song and remember that bar 1 is actually bar 5. Small problem, but annoying, as I was told there would be no math. Also, when I import a track that has a count-in with smart tempo on, guess where it puts the count-in? Right there in no-man's land on bar 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 what's the benefit of starting before measure 1? If you have a count-in before the song and you want the bar count to still be sensible for the rest of the song, it would be nice to be able to do this. Instead, I have to start at bar 4 with the count-in and set a marker for that to be the start of the song and remember that bar 1 is actually bar 5. Small problem, but annoying, as I was told there would be no math. Also, when I import a track that has a count-in with smart tempo on, guess where it puts the count-in? Right there in no-man's land on bar 0. i start all my songs (usually) on measure 2, it's not complicated. when i send a track to a singer, i add a countoff (and usually a chord to set the key) at measure 1. and life goes on. and i rarely use markers; i can see my regions start at measure 2, so i know... that's where the song starts. plus,it takes a half-second to move a region from 0 to 1 (or whatever). starting before 1 1 1 1 is a bad idea in logic; just how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanRad Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I've been using negative bar numbers for 20 years and lived to tell about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I've been using negative bar numbers for 20 years and lived to tell about it. Some likes to live dangerously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I've been using negative bar numbers for 20 years and lived to tell about it. happy for you. it's like logic users who open 2 projects at the same time. if it works for you, that's great; but in general, things that are commonly reported as wreaking havoc are not good things to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I've been using negative bar numbers for 20 years and lived to tell about it. You're most likely the only survivor, so the only negative bar number user who can continue to post here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusbur Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Nevertheless, it would be very useful to be able to renumber bars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Nevertheless, it would be very useful to be able to renumber bars why? just curious what you're thinking is here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusbur Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Teaching students - try explaining incorrectly numbered bars to them when they're trying to follow a score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Teaching students - try explaining incorrectly numbered bars to them when they're trying to follow a score can't you just start on 1 1 1 1? & what is an 'incorrectly numbered' bar? just trying to get this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 If you have a pickup, the first full measure following the pickup should be measure 1. I agree that it would make sense to be able to renumber bars as desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 If you have a pickup, the first full measure following the pickup should be measure 1. I agree that it would make sense to be able to renumber bars as desired. ah, makes sense. am so used to starting on measure 2 (unless i need a longer pickup), i tend to think of '2' as 'start'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 ah, makes sense. am so used to starting on measure 2 (unless i need a longer pickup), i tend to think of '2' as 'start'.... That's fine if you work on your own, but when you have a musician, a director, an orchestrator looking over your shoulder who wants to go to bar 195, it would be easy to be able to type / then 195 than to have to constantly think of the offset, which may be different for different projects. It would also mean that if they see you fixing a MIDI note at bar 23 on your screen, they should be able to look at bar 23 on their score to know where we're at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 ah, makes sense. am so used to starting on measure 2 (unless i need a longer pickup), i tend to think of '2' as 'start'.... That's fine if you work on your own, but when you have a musician, a director, an orchestrator looking over your shoulder who wants to go to bar 195, it would be easy to be able to type / then 195 than to have to constantly think of the offset, which may be different for different projects. It would also mean that if they see you fixing a MIDI note at bar 23 on your screen, they should be able to look at bar 23 on their score to know where we're at. i never work with a score, but i totally get this. & when i do film work, everything is referenced to smpte... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 If working solely in score display, how about using the bar offset in the Score setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanRad Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I've been using negative bar numbers for 20 years and lived to tell about it. Some likes to live dangerously... DANgerously... For a while I tried using a one measure offset to start all things on measure #2. But I found the issues dealing with scores and recording with the constant offset annoying. Maybe if I lived with it for a while, I'd get used to it. But after 25 years and thousands of professional productions, I feel safe in using negative bar numbers. I get pick ups, two pops, preroll, controller info etc. all before beat one. And when I go to measure 25 in my sequence...the musicians are also at measure 25 on their parts. Shocking I know... I start ALL my bounces/stems before measure #1 with no problems. That said, If you can live with the offset between the sequencer and score, then who needs negative bar numbers? BTW, is Logic the only platform with this quirk? DanRad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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