Chicster Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 I have a lot of acoustic drum tracks from when I used ProTools and they are saved in folders with their BPM so that when I am working I can set a base drum beat that is not a drum machine/midi track. When I bring them in to Logic Pro x though, I cannot get the BPM to match what they were recorded at in ProTools. I have one track that was recorded at 130 BPM and yet the BPM meter in Logic has it at 75 BPM. Most of them end up weird times like 94 or 102. It makes working with the grid a bit of a challenge! Anyone got any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 How exactly did you Logic let determine the tempo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hi - I've done it in 2 ways: using the BPM Counter on the drum track (usually hi-hat or kick) and also using quantise on a region. Both are off from what the drums were recorded at but both agree with each other. The furthest out is a fast rock track recorded at 130bpm yet comes in at 75bpm in LPX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 None of these are meant to set Logic's tempo to the drums. The first one won't be of any use unless it's a steady machine beat, the second one can be useful only after Logic's tempo is set correctly. What I would do if I was to import drums that are *reportedly* recorded to a click: - Bring the drum recording onto one or more (if multitracked) track(s) - Move its first downbeat (or count-in) to a downbeat of Logic's grid - Set Logic's tempo to the documented tempo of the recording Do the drum hits line up with the grid until the end ? - If yes, fine, you're done. - If the documented tempo turns out to be wrong altogether, make bigger changes to Logics tempo until you get in the ballpark - If the drum hits fall slowly but gradually out of sync with the grid and the click, only slightly change Logic's tempo until the last hits also line up with the grid. Fine, you're done. If it's a wild performance, i.e. not to a click, then I'd do manual Beat Mapping, as described here: Re: Metronome diverges after beat-mapping I purposely do not recommend Smart Tempo right away, because a) I think *you* should be in control of what's happening and b) Smart Tempo often gets things right, but if it gets things wrong, they're very wrong and you spend the better half of an hour to fix what could have been done manually in five minutes. But as always - feel free to try it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Ok thanks for the detailed response. By accident, I did do a manual process along the lines you outlined and I got a 94bpm match. That still wasn't what the recorded value was (110 in that case) I know the drummer personally, was with him in the recording sessions, and know they were all done to a click. He is a pro session guy too and is hardly off the beat throughout so am pretty confident of my input tracks bpm. I can now get it to a place where the grid maps to the drum tracks and so I don't really bother about the bpm number so much - except that when you get a click track running at 75bpm and the track takes off like an express train cos it was recorded at 130bpm of course! Was just wondering if anyone had encountered similar and if there were any ways to fix it. Had a pal over who is more up on LPX than me and he was completely baffled too...mibbe just have to file under Your Guess Is As Good As Mine at the moment. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Well, I'm getting 100% accurate results 100% of the time with manual Beat Mapping, so I disagree with you here, and also I'm not guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 By accident, I did do a manual process along the lines you outlined and I got a 94bpm match. What manual process? It's hard to understand exactly what the issue is. As Christian said, beat mapping (done properly) allows you to precisely create a tempo curve that matches the audio perfectly, so if that is not the result you're getting then you're not doing the beat mapping right. Just take it one beat at a time, so that you can see which beat is not mapped right and correct it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Yep - I am not using the beat mapping as I am still finding my way around how LPX does things. By manual I mean changing the LPX bpm value until I get the drum beats matching the grid and making little tweaks and manual cuts to the actual track when needed to get it onto the grid. It is not so laborious as it sounds as the drummer doesn't miss much. All I meant was that what was recorded to a click at 130 (or whatever) in ProTools comes in at 75 in LPX or 94...or 102. Both manually and by using the meter or quantise. It just seemed odd so I thought I would raise it. No drama. Interestingly...recordings at 100bpm come in spot on. Mibbe I should stick with that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 what was recorded to a click at 130 (or whatever) in ProTools comes in at 75 in LPX or 94...or 102. Both manually and by using the meter or quantise. Manually: meaning that you set the bpm to 75 in the control bar, and the audio you just imported sounds in time with the metronome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Post a 20 second snippet of hihat and I'll show you how to quickly get precise results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 what was recorded to a click at 130 (or whatever) in ProTools comes in at 75 in LPX or 94...or 102. Both manually and by using the meter or quantise. Manually: meaning that you set the bpm to 75 in the control bar, and the audio you just imported sounds in time with the metronome? More like the drums fit the grid but the metronome hits on the 4th beat. I get around this by adding in beats on the divisions but it is a bit messy sounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Post a 20 second snippet of hihat and I'll show you how to quickly get precise results. OK - will do this in a while on the 130/75 track. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 More like the drums fit the grid but the metronome hits on the 4th beat. I get around this by adding in beats on the divisions but it is a bit messy sounding. Yes, that's not surprising, better get the BPM right from the beginning so that, as you suggested, you can then trust the grid and use it to perform edits etc. You should first strive to be able to turn on the metronome and have sync up with the drums where it makes sense musically. Then and only then you can move on to cut up anything or quantize anything. First things first: if you know the tempo is 130bpm, why not enter 130bpm in the Control bar, manually? That should sync up, as long as you align the very first downbeat in the drums recording to a downbeat on the grid. If that does not, then perhaps there's another issue there, such as sample rate mismatch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 OK - so the drums were all recorded in the same way. Everything starts at Zero, there is an 8 count on the ProTools click track (sometimes on hi-hat in time) and then the drum tracks start. It's a full kit, around 14 tracks in all. When I import I bring them all to zero, set the LPX bpm to the same as they were recorded i.e. 130...and they look like the 130 screenshot. So then I run the BPM meter on the hats or kick and it says 75. I set it to 75 and it looks like the 75 screenshot. At no time do I move the start point or make any other adjustments. The "manual" process ends up the same but just takes a little longer. Maybe I am missing something or am just confused between the two systems, but in PT I was used to watching the grid for the beats lining up but in LPX it is not working out quite the same. Like I said before - no drama and I am working around it. Just curious and it would be better obviously to get it on the same bpm as before as, at some point, I will be exporting it to have it mixed and they will want the right bpm I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Post a 20 second snippet of hihat and I'll show you how to quickly get precise results. Apologies - I bounced it to an MP3 but can't seem to upload that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Zip it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 When I import I bring them all to zero, set the LPX bpm to the same as they were recorded i.e. 130...and they look like the 130 screenshot. Did you check that the project sample rate (File > Project Settings > Audio) is the same as the audio file's sample rate (in the Project Audio browser)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 When I import I bring them all to zero, set the LPX bpm to the same as they were recorded i.e. 130...and they look like the 130 screenshot. Did you check that the project sample rate (File > Project Settings > Audio) is the same as the audio file's sample rate (in the Project Audio browser)? Yeah - just double checked by firing up my old PT machine. Both 44.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Apologies - I bounced it to an MP3 but can't seem to upload that? I have instructions there: How to attach files to your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks - it doesn't seem to allow me to select mp3 format. I'll try and zip it later. I have no utilities on this Mac so will have to put it onto my PC and do it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Logic can bounce to MP3 and you can select Archive... with a ctrl-click in the Finder. Edited January 24, 2022 by fuzzfilth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks - it doesn't seem to allow me to select mp3 format. I'll try and zip it later. I have no utilities on this Mac so will have to put it onto my PC and do it there. Yes, you have to compress the file first. You don't need utilities. See the instructions in the link I just shared where I explain how to compress a file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks - it doesn't seem to allow me to select mp3 format. I'll try and zip it later. I have no utilities on this Mac so will have to put it onto my PC and do it there. Yes, you have to compress the file first. You don't need utilities. See the instructions in the link I just shared where I explain how to compress a file. Sorry - this is all new to me on Mac hats.mp3.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 That track was recorded at 150 BPM. Set that manually in Logic Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Ok, just opened that file, pulled the mp3 to 1.1.1.1 in a new 44.1kHz project, listened once to the performance, it's definitely not 130bpm but much faster. Listened for the downbeat of bar 3 (bar 1 is count-in, bar 2 is intro fill and band starts at bar 3), turned Logic's tempo up until that downbeat visually moved to bar 3, Logic's tempo read 148 then, I guessed it to actually be 150 and set the tempo to this, activated the click and hit Play. Right on the money. 150bpm from first to last hit. Took about 30 seconds to set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Well since that is twice 75 I am not gonna argue All I can say is it is 130 in ProTools (and Cubase as it was mixed in that). But anyway - if I get a fit to the grid it means I make more accurate edits. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 It's hard to argue, so it's wise not to. Pull up any click in this world at 150 and it will fit this recording. It's either labeled wrong at 130 or you remember it wrong. Happens to the best of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 All I can say is it is 130 in ProTools (and Cubase as it was mixed in that). It's possible that in Pro Tools (or Cubase) the file's tempo was mistakenly set to 130, however the audio is undeniably playing a 150 bpm beat, so in that case, if you turned on a metronome in Pro Tools (or Cubase), the metronome would not be in sync with the audio. You can play the audio file on any kind of playback systems other than Logic if you want to verify that it plays at the same speed (QuickLook, QuickTime, Music, etc....). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicster Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 As I said - no drama and not trying to score points. There seems to be a variation between what I have in PT (and Cubase) when it goes over to LPX. That was just one example - lots of others have arisen and some not so neat i.e bpm of 94 or 105. The only bpm that seems to match perfectly is 100 for some reason. The 75 above came from LPX meter and quantise so I just went with that. 150 works perfectly as you say. I'll just live with it and map the beats to the grid as they fall rather than what they were saved as originally. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 There seems to be a variation between what I have in PT (and Cubase) when it goes over to LPX. What I can tell you is that if you import that file you just shared in a new PT or Cubase session, it plays at 150 bpm as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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