Jump to content

How do I change the key of the whole song?


Jadendo

Recommended Posts

If the tracks are separate, I think you could use something like Melodyne to change keys on each of your tracks.

 

However, I don't think it's easy any other way. Mainly because different notes need to move a different number of half steps.

 

If it's MIDI, maybe there is something in the environment you could use. I know in Digital Performer there is a plugin that allows transposing between two scales, you have to enter both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Er....no.

If he wants to do it in F# then you just need to drop everything a semitone.

Except the drums/perc.

If it's all software instruments you can use the transpose in the inspector (-1),or select everything in score edit and drag down half a step.

If it's audio,then pitch shift or melodyne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it's Celine Dion- once I told her something like that, she threw a bottle of water at me and said my mother was a pig- I found that out later from a French dictionary. Next day I was fired.

 

Maybe it is best to move all the instruments down half a step, so the singer doesn't have to change anything- if it's Celine Dion.

 

Don't even ask me about the time I told Kanye West that speeding up whole songs and rapping over them was kind of dumb...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duh, sorry not thinking :)

 

Was thinking changing scales, not keys (IE C major to C minor). The sad part, I should know this as a guitar player :)

 

Though I will still say, I'd use something like melodyne to change the instruments. It works great! But having the procussion pulled out will be important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No way to change key in Logic?

 

I'm new to Logic 7 and am waiting for L8 to arrive. I am suprised that you can't transpose a whole song or even a region in Logic.

 

There is the transform menu, can it be done from there?

 

Hmm... I know in Finale it is just a click and voila!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

honeybee... not being funny, but Finale is a SCORE application and Logic is an AUDIO application (albeit with MIDI as well, which *can* easily be changed in pitch).

 

You can *transpose* tracks, multiple regions etc using the parameters and no doubt you can change the *key* in the score window. Asking Logic to change the entire transposition and key of a project with one click is like asking Finale to record a full orchestra in a mono track and automatically transform it all to MIDI...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The midi is easy.

I still think that open score and select all (in score view,not individual parts) and drag up/down is easiest.

At least for small changes.

If it were a 5th then you might have to adjust parts ranges here and there.

And don't forget to deselect the drums!

Key change is a one click job,but won't transpose it.

 

Audio is a diifferent kettle of fish tea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To simplify all of this to answer the original poster's question:

 

1) Changing the key of the song in Logic is just changing a label, essentially. Yes, it's just a click or two, but all it does is say "this song is in F#", it doesn't actually make anything change to the key of F#.

 

2) Transposing MIDI is easy, as each MIDI track has an option to transpose in the inspector. In this case, you'd just transpose each track down a half-step (-1).

 

3) Transposing audio files is where things get dicey. You can use third-party tools like Melodyne, etc., but for anything beyond quarter-tones (particularly for large parts of your song, you're looking at some real issues of compromising sound quality. If your song is in any significant part recorded audio, I'd say that there is no acceptable substitution for going back and re-recording it.

 

You may find, however, that you like the effect created by pitchshifting (it can be anywhere from very subtle to in-your-face Cher-type vocals), and it might lead you down a whole new creative avenue. But chances are, if a lot of audio is involved, it's going to come down to choosing between re-tracking everything, or convincing the singer that she/he just sounds amazing and so much better in G. :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't even ask me about the time I told Kanye West that speeding up whole songs and rapping over them was kind of dumb...

Actually Stronger is slowed down compared to Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. From 123 to 105 bpm. The loop is also down 3 semitones. Takes like 30 seconds to do it with Melodyne...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it's Celine Dion- once I told her something like that, she threw a bottle of water at me and said my mother was a pig- I found that out later from a French dictionary. Next day I was fired.

 

Maybe it is best to move all the instruments down half a step, so the singer doesn't have to change anything- if it's Celine Dion.

 

Don't even ask me about the time I told Kanye West that speeding up whole songs and rapping over them was kind of dumb...

 

Hahaha . . . touche!

 

Great evolution of a good post. LMAO here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, now on a serious note:

 

I'm sure that there can be an entire book written on the Psychology of Key Signatures, if there isn't one out there already.

 

Many people are under the impression that when we change key signatures that, we just move some notes around in order to accommodate our condition. i.e.: singers that can't sing in the key which the track was written. It's not the singers fault, as much as it's their condition.

 

Transposition, and Key Signature alterations are indeed, two different things. A simplistic way of looking at it might be:

Transposition = pitch shifting

Key Change = mood shifting.

 

It's my guess that by altering the key signature as you've described here might result in a darker approach to the song. Certainly there are may factors at play of which I have no clue about (chord progressions etc.)

 

IMHO, get a different singer (if at all possible) or, work it out with him/her or lastly, change the key signature but before proceeding, ensure that the song has retained or, heightened it's appeal. After all, it's all about the music, right?

 

Best of luck to you.

 

P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, now on a serious note:

 

I'm sure that there can be an entire book written on the Psychology of Key Signatures, if there isn't one out there already.

 

Many people are under the impression that when we change key signatures that, we just move some notes around in order to accommodate our condition. i.e.: singers that can't sing in the key which the track was written. It's not the singers fault, as much as it's their condition.

 

Transposition, and Key Signature alterations are indeed, two different things. A simplistic way of looking at it might be:

Transposition = pitch shifting

Key Change = mood shifting.

 

It's my guess that by altering the key signature as you've described here might result in a darker approach to the song. Certainly there are may factors at play of which I have no clue about (chord progressions etc.)

 

IMHO, get a different singer (if at all possible) or, work it out with him/her or lastly, change the key signature but before proceeding, ensure that the song has retained or, heightened it's appeal. After all, it's all about the music, right?

 

Best of luck to you.

 

P

 

Key sigs have nothing to do with darkness.

If you drop something down a semitone,you need to adjust the key sig accordingly.

It's not rocket science,though rocket science owes its existence to music,ultimatek\ly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People's perceptions of key will make a song seem darker or lighter in mood when the key changes. And some instruments can be said to have a darker or lighter tone in different keys. But there is nothing inherent to a key that would make a variation in mood, really- I'm sure some will say there is, though.

 

I mean, the same note of say, G#, is a lot on things simultaneously in different keys, in E Major, it's an integral major third, in C Major, it's a hideous sounding sharpened 5th note. In A flat it's the root note of the key and in A Major it's a happy sounding major 7th, which is still considered dissonant in contrast to the note of A in the key of A. It has a relationship to every key, some consonant, some dissonant, and there are many who will say that those sounds are simply a learned response to a preconception of what society tells us music is supposed to sound like.

 

This is one of the main theories behind 20th century atonal music, the forefathers of which famously looked to the traditional music in other parts of the world (Indian classical music and Asian music, off the top of my head come to mind) and found that they have tonal centers that are considered quite dissonant by Western ears. I'm sure the reverse is somewhat true as well. So the theory behind this is that what is considered a strong tonal progression is learned and not inherent in human beings. I don't agree- there are certain universal mathematical relationships in music that can only be considered pleasant. But what do I know.

 

Anyway, the song is in G. (Major, I assume.) Let's say the progression is G Major-C Major-G-Major-C Major-D Major- A Minor- C Major-D Major-G Major. That's a very simple progression, but sue me, jazz boys. That also is a I-IV-I-IV-V-vi-IV-V-I progression. There is a deceptive cadence from the D Major to A Minor, and that's the only vaguely interesting thing I've put in there.

 

In F#, the key we want to change it to, that would be F# Major-B Major-F# Major-B Major-C# Major-D# minor-B Major-C# Major-F# Major. But it will still have the same overall feeling to it, play them both and see. Played fast, and either of those will have a happy, upbeat sound. The key does not change this.

 

Some caveats: I assume we are talking about taking it down a half step from G Major to F# Major. Going up, while it wouldn't change the character of the progression, would bring out different tonalities in the instruments that were used. The harmonics would be different for one thing, which would give a feeling of "mood". But going down half a step wouldn't be changing all that much, but it could, again, be perceptible on a specific instrument, in a specific room, with a specific singer, etc.- I say this because there will be some who say they hear a difference when they play it on their guitar or whatever.

 

And they do. But the difference is in them, and their guitar, and the world around them- but it isn't inherent to the key itself. And that's what makes music such a wonderful thing- it isn't exactly the same for any of us, yet the power of it is something that can't be comprehended or described.

 

You were all much happier with my smartass Celine Dion comments- you can see why she fired me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah- that song is actually one of my favorites that they've got in the catalog of the Tap.

 

I should mention, though, that despite my rambling in my last post- and this is before I wrestle my way through a six pack of Busch is winter Saint Louis- that a singer wanting a song played in a different key, even if it's only from G down to F#, is perfectly acceptable and reasonable. If it helps them bring out the feeling they are looking for, and most folks can't get the emotion they're looking for out of many keys, then that is what is important in the end. But it would really be easier to rehearse it with the person in the key that it would likely end up in, and just play it in that key, than to run some voodoo down on it with studio trickery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's really cracking me up is "jalendo" asked a question, "Where's the button?" and we say there ain't no button, he says, "No button? Damn!" and for the next 20 or so posts it's us giving him advice he's never logging back in to read anyway. This I've noticed is pretty common.

 

But I learn a lot from reading the contributions of folks who post here a lot such as yourself, I point out to folks that it really broadens the base of how many people I know who care about this sort of thing as much as I do.

 

And I also point out that it spares them from me talking to them about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to hear that you can transpose when you are in midi.

 

It is the same in Finale by the way, except yes, you're correct it is a notation program so you see the key change in the notation as well, quite simply.

 

Does it do this in score editor? Transpose the score that is? I apologize for sounding out of touch currently with Logic, again I am new to L7, but have not bothered using the program recently since I'm waiting for L8 and am extra busy currently teaching piano (my job!) But by reading this forum lots is sinking in.

 

I can see it not happening with audio. And really if you need to transpose an accompaniment to a singer, do another take in the correct key. That would be the most logical (pun not intended.)

 

Melodyne sounds like a pretty cool plug-in though. It actual works with Logic to transpose recorded audio? Hmmm.... need to check it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds great on vocals, Dave. How about on complex multipitch instruments like acoustic guitar strumming? I'd imagine that that would be a bit more difficult to make sound the same. Good, perhaps, but likely at least slightly different than playing the instrument in a different key (with same voicings, of course), no?

 

And how much of a CPU hog is this? How many instances can you use in a given project? Is this something you could put on a bus and route everything through it in order to karaoke-ize it, as our OP was requesting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...