Adjusting Automation on Multiple Tracks

After a bit of fiddling, I have found a way to adjust volume automation on all tracks at once. I thought I'd post it here as a tip, because I previously thought it was not possible to do in Logic.

It can be a bit flaky, but by using the exact method below, it seems to work reliably ... so far.

1. Select an arrange track with automation data present.

2. Open the Automation Event List (Ctl-Cmd-E)

3. Open Automation Arrange Page (Cmd-1)

4. Select all (Cmd-A)

5. Open the Piano Roll of the Automation Arrange Page (P)

6. From the Piano Roll Functions menu, select Transform and then any of the sub-menu options, to open the Transform Window.

7. In the Transform Window, press the Presets menu button and select ** Create Initialized User Set! **

8. In the top row, set Status to "Control", Data Byte 1 to "=" and then "7".

9. In the bottom row, set Data Byte 2 to "Add" and then set whatever number you want to increment by.

10. Press "Select and Operate" and all volume automation on all tracks should have incremented by the amount set in step 9.

If it has worked correctly, the bottom right of the Transform Window will display something like" 723 events in 11 MIDI Region(s) found", if not it will say "0 events in 0 MIDI Region(s) found".

It has worked a few times for me by skipping steps 3 - 6, and selecting the regions and opening the Transform Window from the Automation Event List, but like I said, the above method seems to work every time. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Piano Roll can view the contents of multiple regions at the same time. Anyway, once you are used to it, the whole thing can be performed pretty quickly.

You could also obviously isolate other automation parameters by entering appropriate values at step 8.

Also in step 4, instead of selecting all, you could select just a small group of tracks for processing (e.g. just the strings).

Hope others can get this working too.

Tom

Thanks David.

Just to add to this, I think selecting "Expon." or "Mul" in step 9 could be a better choice, as adding values will also raise the value of fades to silence (infinity).

Also, someone on the LUG pointed out that the conversion from the MIDI scale to db is logarithmic. If that is true (which I think it is?) then "Expon." would be the better choice.

Tom

This assumes that the volume automation is region automation, not track automation. The transform window only works on regions....right?

No, this thread is regarding track automation. It works great, try it! Track automation is contained in regions too, you just have to open an arrange window after opening the automation event list to see (and edit) them.

Tom - Thanks again for this tip.

I have to re-read it closely tomorrow before I try it.

I'm particularly interested in how it relates to and works wit the effects levels I have set for these mixes. And I'm sure, as thorough as you've been - that you've dealt with it in detail.

Thanks again.

EmoryJ

This assumes that the volume automation is region automation, not track automation. The transform window only works on regions....right?

 

No, this thread is regarding track automation. It works great, try it! Track automation is contained in regions too, you just have to open an arrange window after opening the automation event list to see (and edit) them.

Very, very cool. I never saw this in the manual! Gotta love this forum! Here's a screenshot from the manual explaining the concept of track automation stored as regions and how to bring it up. So many opportunities for cc processing when automation can be viewed and modified as regions... wow!

Screen Shot p. 594

Thanx nosebagger.

You get my vote for "Tip of the Week"

Hey Guys - So, I'm using this magic and I realize that I need to be able to "undo" the "select and operate" step where I commit the input value or multiply ratio.

Can someone please explain how this works for me?

Is is it an "operate" then "select and operate" when I have the value I want?

Or can I Command Z my way back into the attempt?

I'm so close, and I'm so happy to be four windows into a new and very useful tip.

I just need some final wisdom.

Anybody out there today?

Thanks!

EmoryJ

I figured it out - when in doubt - undo!

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP HERE!!!!

I now have proper output gain for my mixes without globally pushing anything -

allowing me to detail my mastering in one pass and - most importantly -

Teaching me that I can actually learn this whizbang stuff - and eventually have my engineering ability match my musical ability.

Thanks again!

Emory

I had a bit of time to fiddle with this yesterday and came up with the numbers needed to mimic the behaviour of dragging volume automation from above the line (i.e. so that each node retains the same distance in db from the next one - more or less).

To work this out, I put a node at every point on two adjacent, zoomed tracks. I then dragged the first track up by the increment I wanted to measure (always referencing a node that would end up at either +5.9 or +6.0db) and next adjusted the second track with the transform window, until each node on each track was at an identical level. (It was actually a lot quicker to do than it sounds!).

The results are as follows:

For accurate global volume changes, in step 9 of my first post, choose "Mul" at data byte 2 and, for the following volume increases, enter the following values:

12db = 2.000

10.5db = 1.8284

9db = 1.6840

7.5db = 1.5388

6db = 1.4138

4.5db = 1.2969

3db = 1.1914

1.5db = 1.0977

1db = 1.0585

0.5db = 1.0352

0.2db = 1.0195

I have saved these as Transform Sets, so it is now very quick for me to perform volume increases across multiple tracks. That said, I still think that using the Gain plug-in, the master fader, or sending tracks to a buss for global volume changes are all effective (and in some cases a better) options - but this has its place too.

These numbers can also be used to decrease the volume by selecting "Div" at data byte 2. However, unlike with volume increases, the results are not 100% accurate. If I get around to working out what the exact numbers should be for volume decreases, I will post them, but if anyone else wishes to do it, please feel free!

Tom

N.B. It is important to perform any volume increase in as few steps as possible. If you want a 6db increase, do it in one 6db step and not six 1db steps, as nodes at lower levels will not be changed at all if you use 1db steps. This is true, also, when dragging automation.

12db = 2.000

10.5db = 1.8284

9db = 1.6840

7.5db = 1.5388

6db = 1.4138

4.5db = 1.2969

3db = 1.1914

1.5db = 1.0977

1db = 1.0585

0.5db = 1.0352

0.2db = 1.0195

Hmmm. Interesting this.

When I looked at those figures they looked very familiar: pitch ratios.

In which case the factors would be:

1dB x 1.059

2dB x 1.122

3dB x 1.189

4dB x 1.26

5dB x 1.334

6dB x 1.4142

7dB x 1.498

8dB x 1.587

9dB x 1.682

10dB x 1.7818

11dB x 1.887

12dB x 2

And to decrease multiply by the following factors:

-1dB x 0.943

-2dB x 0.8909

-3dB x 0.84

-4dB x 0.7937

-5dB x 0.749

-6dB x 0.707

-7dB x 0.667

-8dB x 0.63

-9dB x 0.595

-10dB x 0.561

-11dB x 0.530

-12dB x 0.5

I'm still trying to get my head around why 12dB is a factor of 2, but I tried a few calculations and it all seems to work, bearing in mind that the transformer is working with midi controller values with no decimals, which are then displayed as dB values to 1 decimal place!

It doesn't work with audio tracks as the transform window is only looking in midi regions. Any idea how to do the same with audio tracks?

I think I am wrong according to what David is saying here: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=33516&highlight=automation

But still... I can't get it to work. It just doesn't select what it should eventhough I am at the Automation Arrange.

----

I've got it to work. The important bit is that the automation event list window MUST be opened before pressing Command+1.

This is just stuuupid. Why the hell is it required to have a particular window open to access the MIDI informaiton encodind the Automation data? It is really not transparent not straightforward and not user friendly.

It doesn't work with audio tracks as the transform window is only looking in midi regions. Any idea how to do the same with audio tracks?

You're not working with normal MIDI regions in the Arrange window, you're working with the MIDI regions that are inside the automation folder. They contain track automation data, whether the track is audio or not - doesn't make a difference as far as automation is concerned.

Make sure you follow the exact sequence of steps described in nosebagger's original post (top of the thread) and it will work.

Daft,

Thanks for those numbers! I will give them a try when I get a chance.

When I worked out my original numbers, I first tried looking for some magic ratio, but in the end gave up and used trial and error.

That's what I love about this forum ... there's always someone smarter than yourself!

Lepton,

Like David said, follow the procedure in the first post, and it will work every time.

I don't know that I would necessarily call this "stupid", as it's obviously not an intended feature, but a back way into functionality that some users have been wanting. Perhaps in future releases, a more intuitive (and intended) way to do this will be implemented.

In the meantime, this method works well, as do ones involving the use of the Gain plug-in, or summing to a buss, or adjusting the Master fader (depending on exactly what it is you are trying to achieve).

Tom

What's the difference in this trick and just creating a group with automation enabled?

This tip allows you to have different automation on different tracks, and lower the automation on all those tracks at the same time. You can't do that with a group.

Thanks nosebagger, works great.

I had to write all my un automated fader positions by setting automation to write & double clicking the fader. Then all tracks are effected by the transform.

Is there an easier way of writing fader positions to automation data?

colossal,

I don't know if this is faster, but what I do if I have tracks with no automation present is put all tracks into Touch with the key command Ctrl-Shft-Cmd-T, set a 1 bar cycle before the song starts, press play and then wiggle the fader of every non-automated track and aux that I want to include.

This doesn't relate to your question, but I'll also outline the technique that I use if I only want to perform the transform operation on specific automated tracks, as opposed to all automated tracks. To do this, assign the automated tracks you want to transform to a group and, in Group Settings, tick "Region Selection (Edit)". Now when you get to the Automation Arrange Page, select one of the regions that you want to transform and this will select all the others in the group too.

Anyway, I'm glad you're finding this technique useful.

Tom

Nice one that helps & thanks for that extra tip.

This is the 1st time I've found the transform window useful in ages. Feels great to do some more advanced (for me anyway) stuff.

I had maxed out my faders in a mix & needed to bring everything down & tis did the job nicely.

I've just come across this thread in search of answers about a topic that may be related, not sure... This may be a whoppingly dumb question, so apologies in advance.

A bit of background first. Up until very recently, I had the impression that designating a track as the "Master Volume" in the Arrange page, and then writing volume automation data to that track, was the equivalent of writing automation data to all the individual tracks that needed fading -- in other words, if I needed to do a global fade on all tracks at the end of a piece, I would simply write one automated fade to this Master Volume track.

Up until now this seems to have worked without any problems, but very recently I needed to do this with a very quick fade-out, and set to a very specific time -- for example, a fade-out that ends at exactly 15 seconds, and where the fade-out begins a mere eighth of a second earlier. Now what seems to happen is that the sound does actually fade out very quickly, but *before* it's supposed to! The volume fader itself (in the Environment window) appears to responds at the right moment, but the actual sound itself (the thing that truly matters) cuts out way too early. (I tested this against doing the exact same fade-out on a single audio track, which works as expected.) I next attempted to create a "global fade-out" by writing the same automation data to an "Output 1-2" track in the Arrange page. Results were better but still not accurate. The only way I could get this to work with seeming accuracy was to assign all the tracks that needed fading to a buss and then writing the same volume automation data to this buss track in the Arrange page.

Now I noticed that nosebag wrote at the beginning of his first post, with respect to adjusting volume automation on all tracks at once, that he "previously thought it was not possible to do in Logic."

So here's where my dumb question comes in, or maybe I'm just looking for confirmation about what may have already been stated in this thread: Is the behaviour I've described above "normal". In other words, can the Master Volume not be relied upon to create fast and accurate fade-outs by writing automation data to a Master Volume track in the Arrange window?

In my case, I do have a solution in that I can use a buss to get the desired results, but what concerns me is that, since I've never noticed this behaviour before (volume fades happening too early), I'm worried there may be something that could have changed in my settings that is causing this to happen now... Not that I've been fiddling with my settings at all, but that's the insidious nature of doubt

Thanks for any enlightenment on this, and again, apologies for what is no doubt whopping ignorance on this topic!

Hi Fandangos,

Your question doesn't really relate to this topic, which is about making changes to independent automation across multiple tracks.

The master fader behaviour you describe is not what I would expect, and I'm sure people will have ideas for a solution, so I suggest you start a new topic for this question, so it gets noticed.

Tom

Thanks so much for the quick reply Tom!! I will start a new topic and see where it gets me...

Cheers

 

For accurate global volume changes, in step 9 of my first post, choose "Mul" at data byte 2 and, for the following volume increases, enter the following values:

 

12db = 2.000

10.5db = 1.8284

9db = 1.6840

7.5db = 1.5388

6db = 1.4138

4.5db = 1.2969

3db = 1.1914

1.5db = 1.0977

1db = 1.0585

0.5db = 1.0352

0.2db = 1.0195

 

Can someone please confirm if they get the same behavior. Using "Mul" and the 0.5db = 1.0352, I can't get a value that's under -20.0 db to raise up. All other values and nodes above -20.0 move, but the ones below just stay there.

Using "Div" and 0.5db works fine for all values.

I don't have time to check, but I think this is normal. What these numbers do is mimic the behaviour of manually dragging the automation curve. So if you have a node at say 0db and a node at -20db and (with them both selected) drag from above or below the line until your 0db node reads 0.5db, the 20db node will have not moved. This is basically a type of quantisation error, which only occurs at the lower end of the scale. The upshot is that the more you repeat the 0.5db drag, the more out of whack things get. Using these numbers in the Transform Window simply replicates this behaviour - it's not an error in the numbers.

The thing to do, whether using the Transform Window or dragging, is use as few steps as needed, to avoid these quantisation errors (I think I mention this somewhere earlier on). So, if in the Transform Window you want to increase by 5db, do 4.5db and then 0.5db. Or just settle for 4.5db. Or work out the number for 5db yourself.

For multiplying, I'm quite confident these numbers reproduce the drag behaviour exactly, as I have tested them. I've only tested with division enough to know that they are not 100% accurate with division, but they seem very close (say < 1db error along the scale). One day I or someone else may have time to post completely accurate numbers for division.

Also, I have briefly tried Daft's numbers and they produced slightly different results to mine, so I can't vouch for them.

Tom

Question for all who've tried this technique, are all the values produced exact? For example if you subract 3db(using the multipliers someone graciously listed in this thread) from all faders. Will all the resulting values be 'exactly' 3db lower? Or will they snap to Logics Wonderful 128 preset fader levels (happens when you edit automation from Arrange, or move faders using the GUI). EX: go to your mixer window, grab a fader and set it to -3.5db. You wont be able to using the fader. Or if you try to edit volume automation in Arrange, you wont be able to do it either.

This technique, if it does use the full number resolution, could be a great part of my work arounds for the 'Trim Automation' function thats missing in Logic.

Example you have a whole drum kit, and want to change the level. Problem with grouping is if you have different efx send levels on the kit, when you group the direct outputs, changing in the group level won't change sends on individual tracks of the drum kit of course.

Shipjumper, as I said earlier, I have only properly tested these numbers for adding db (mul), not for subtracting db (div). For adding, they are 100% accurate, but for subtracting, I have only done enough testing to know that they are not 100% accurate (but they are in the ball park).

When adding db, you are reproducing the scaling that occurs when you select multiple nodes and drag them up from within the automation lane. So, the answer to your question is yes, as far as I can tell you run up against the same limitation of snapping to the nearest of 128 increments. But, if you are happy with the results when you manually drag your automation nodes up, you will be happy with the results when using these numbers in the Transform Window - as it amounts to the same thing.

Example you have a whole drum kit, and want to change the level. Problem with grouping is if you have different efx send levels on the kit, when you group the direct outputs, changing in the group level won't change sends on individual tracks of the drum kit of course.

You could go about this this way:

1. Assign all drum channels to a group.

2. For post fader sends you don't need to do any thing, as changing the channel volume also effectively changes the send levels. For PRE fader sends, assign the Aux return to the same group.

3. Change the level of the drums by moving one of the drum channel faders and everything should follow.

Or my preferred way:

1. Assign all drum channel outputs to a buss.

2. Assign all Aux fx returns (pre and post) to the same buss.

3. Change the level of the drums from the fader of the Aux created in step 1.

I'm assuming here that the fx are not being shared by other instruments. If they are, then you need to dulpicate the Aux channels containing the fx and use them exclusively for the drums. If you don't have enough system resources, or are using hardware fx, then you need to skip step 2 and adjust each send by the same amount as the fader change, or consider printing the fx to an audio track and adding it to the group or buss (depending in which method you have used).

Tom

for those of you who still uses Logic 7, the workaround is to select the regions you want to edit, then assign a quick key command to 'move current track automation data to region', and open the Transform-window.

from there, refer to nosebagger's steps 8 to 10.

after you're done, choose 'move current region data to track automation' also available as a key command.

The manual says the only way to open Open the Automation Event List is with the key command (Ctl-Cmd-E) . It doesn't work for me. The screen just flashes.

Anyone?

- B