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fader8
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:16 am

jordito wrote:
Do we always need to compensate manually to land the playhead at the beginning of a frame?

I've not had any problems using the RW/FWD one frame command. It's one of the very few ways to get the playhead to be "frame friendly". That always lands my playhead at the head of the frame, but sometimes at the tail of the previous. Not that it matters much. But to further illustrate the need to show bits, the pic shows both locations as frame 15, but the second one is obviously frame 16.

But for "spotting" audio to a frame head, it's much better to not use the playhead but reference from the region itself. Regions will follow the snap settings, unlike the playhead which likes ticks. So Snap to Frame, Snap to Absolute Value, and the region anchor lands at the head of the frame, every time. Then adjust the anchor location in the sample editor to fine tune exactly what event happens at the frame head.

Make sure "Lock Arrange Position When Moving Anchor" is unchecked.
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Jordi Torres
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:04 am

fader8 wrote:
jordito wrote:
Do we always need to compensate manually to land the playhead at the beginning of a frame?

I've not had any problems using the RW/FWD one frame command. It's one of the very few ways to get the playhead to be "frame friendly". That always lands my playhead at the head of the frame, but sometimes at the tail of the previous.


Thanks, fader8. I was beginning to think that maybe those commands were worthless. Like I said before, last project I did with video was audio post for a documentary (a year ago). I remember using those commands (and also markers) for navigating the project. I can't remember the bit about landing at the tail of a frame, but most likely I did. However, I didn't have to spot anything as my job was to get rid of wind rumble and other noise, setting levels, EQing, etc. Basically cleaning the audio up and making things sound as coherent as possible.

fader8 wrote:
But for "spotting" audio to a frame head, it's much better to not use the playhead but reference from the region itself. Regions will follow the snap settings, unlike the playhead which likes ticks. So Snap to Frame, Snap to Absolute Value, and the region anchor lands at the head of the frame, every time. Then adjust the anchor location in the sample editor to fine tune exactly what event happens at the frame head.

Make sure "Lock Arrange Position When Moving Anchor" is unchecked.


I'll keep that in mind....and the bits....in my SMPTE display. :D

Thanks again fader, fuzz, and ski.

J.
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ski
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:39 am

You're welcome!

Yes, you can trust Logic to get you to the leading edge of the frame. However, the only way to do this is to manually scroll the bits value to get you there. In my experience you cannot trust Logic's FF/RW-by-frame commands to ever accurately get you there.

I don't look at this as a matter of compensating for anything other than the shortcomings of Logic to be able to accurately calculate the width of a frame at any given frame rate. It's not like once you arrive at the leading edge that Logic (or QT) are lying to you. And I'm confident that as picture plays you're seeing an accurate and repeatable representation of how your music (or foley or whatever) sync to picture. What I'm going on about at length here is the ability to spot a frame at the leading edge. And no, you just can't use FF/RW to get you there accurately.
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fader8
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:35 pm

ski wrote:
In my experience you cannot trust Logic's FF/RW-by-frame commands to ever accurately get you there.

How far off are you seeing it? I can't make it land anywhere except subframe 0 of the desired frame, or subframe 79 of the previous frame when using that command. I do notice that the actual frame (picture) head can occur at 79, 00, 01 or 02. It's not exactly precise, but I haven't noticed it worse than that.
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ski
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:06 pm

Hola Señor Ocho,

I too get consistent results using 30, 25, and 24. But try it with 29.97 or 23.976 and I think you'll see what I'm seeing. And if you're not then... it'll be fodder for further discussion! :D
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uncle808us
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:20 pm

I have a very novice question about seeing frames in Logic 9.
I am using Motion Assist to create a video.
Both it and Logic 9 are set to 25 frames fps.
In Motion Assist the Intro ends at 191 frames. But I don't see this read out any where on the transport bar in Logic 9.
Is there a way to see this?
Thanks
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ski
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:27 pm

191 frames at is 7.64 seconds of footage. So at the end of the intro the SMPTE readout in Logic will likely show something like 00:00:07:12. That's 0 hours, 0 minutes, 7 seconds, 12 frames. [EDIT: confirmed now that I see there's a screenshot attached to your post. See below for why it reads out 8 seconds instead of what I said above].

BTW, why are you working at 25 fps? Unless you're creating this for Europe or Australia (where 25 fps is the normal frame rate for film) then I'd suggest using 29.97 for video or perhaps 23.976 (otherwise known as 23.98, which is not the same as 24).
Last edited by ski on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ski
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:30 pm

Ah, now your image has shown up.

The reason Logic is rounding up to 8 frames is because you have the Display preferences set to not show bits. So change that to display SMPTE with bits. Then the timecode readout will be more accurate.
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ski
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:33 pm

One more thing... Logic doesn't (and can't) show frame numbers in the way you're seeing them in your other program. I'd suggest seeing if there's an option in Motion to display frames as SMPTE (timecode).

Otherwise, you'll have to do the math.

Traditionally, when it comes to audio post production, composers, editors, mixers, use timecode for spotting frames, not the kind of frame number you're seeing in Motion.
MacPro 8 Core 2.4 GHz Xeon | 32G RAM | Sierra | LPX10.4 | Creator of ARTzID and SkiSwitcher Articulation Switching Systems for Logic Pro X, author of tutorials on The Score Editor, Enhancing Realism in Orchestral Mockups, and others.
 
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uncle808us
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:02 pm

ski wrote:
One more thing... Logic doesn't (and can't) show frame numbers in the way you're seeing them in your other program. I'd suggest seeing if there's an option in Motion to display frames as SMPTE (timecode).

Otherwise, you'll have to do the math.

Traditionally, when it comes to audio post production, composers, editors, mixers, use timecode for spotting frames, not the kind of frame number you're seeing in Motion.

Thank you Thank you, Motion Artist did have that option. This will work just fine and I thank you.
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ski
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:28 pm

You're very welcome! 8)
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felipeayres
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Re: Why do Logic display frames this way? [SOLVED]

Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:18 am

Hello guys. So I'm Letting Pro Tools go and trying to use Logic. I noticed this issue going on. Since music for film is the center of my work, I'm kinda worried.
Ive read all your posts and it seems there is no work around this besides adjusting manually the playhead, right? My forward/rewind keys does not help with that issue. It jumps from a full frame to a .79 frame. So if I use SMPTE without subframes is worse because it jumps from frame 8 straight to frame 10, because frame 9 is actually still 8.79 But the thing that makes me feel really frustrated is that on the ruller my playhead is on top of a full frame, but in the counter I see the last frame+ .79, This is absolutely a mind riddle!

timecode.png
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Did you guys find out any workaround this after the last post? I'm in 10.3.2

Thanks very much!