Using Logic as midi thru

Is there an ability in Logic to use an instrument as midi thru.

So that it can receive and both send at the same time?

Try next:

1. Go to the Click & Ports Environment layer and create a new Standard Instrument object from the "New" menu above.

2. Set the Instrument port in the Inspector to the physical midi port you want to have midi thru.

3. Cable the Instrument from a certain pin of the Physical Input if you want to have midi IN from a given device and cable the Instrument to the "Input View" monitor if what to split that IN pin/device and use it in Logic as well.

OR (second/bottom) the Standard Instrument cable from say the "Input View" monitor which will provide "Sum" multiple midi Inputs from the all ports of the Physical Input.

Vacheto

Yes there is, but what version of Logic are you running? Please add your Logic version and system info to your signature: Read Me Before Posting - Forum Guidelines (#5)

right now i'm running a :

macbookpro 2.5 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 Mhz DDR2RAM, OSX 10.5.8

with Logic 9.1.1 installed

to make it a bit easier to explane.

if you follow this link and skip towards 4.28 min

this is exactly what i'm trying to do only here it's done with cubase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDdN-fS1kA4&p=7AC6245182C73CAE&playnext=1&index=34

Well, what I see in the video is that the Machine has midi IN and OUT. In Cubase I see that the machine IN is shown as IN and OUT port. So in Logic you must see "Machine" device in the Physical Input in Click & Ports.

If the machine interface is loaded as Software Instrument (I do not own it) you must create say a Standard Instrument in the Logic Environment and cable it to the Software Instrument channel strip after that you create an Arrange track for the Standard Instrument object.

Set the Standard Instrument Port to (Machine device) select that track and record and play midi. I.e the midi data will be split to the hardware device using the Standard Instrument Port and to the Software Instrument using the environment cable.

Another scenario is if the Software Instrument offers a hardware midi out directly somewhere in its options. What is the Editor shown in the video - Stand Alone or AU plugin I could not understand... ?

Yes in the video it's running as a standalone. Maschine has got a virtual and physical midi i/o to connect with other software or hardware.

It would be indeed easier to load it as an AU instrument.

But i find it more comfortable to use it standalone.

OMG, talk about complicating a situation beyond what's required...

Jolsen, disregard all of the above for a second...

Does Maschine have a MIDI function called "Local"? (Typically the choices for this control are simply "on" and "off"). If you have this function then doing what you want is extremely simple, no Environment stuff required. And even if it doesn't, same story -- no Environment programming required.

So please post back with an answer to that question and we can take it from there.

no, the midi prefs. in the maschine software are really minimal.

no midi modes to choose from except for midi-input "omni" or any individual midi channel.

that's just to listen to all channels or single out a specific one.

but i think maschine isn't the problem.

the first steps in the video should get maschine ready to work with any daw.

so it's about logic retrieving maschine's messages and again being able to feed it back out to maschine like cubase does in the video

Maschine has got a virtual and physical midi i/o to connect with other software or hardware.

O.K I guessed so. Try next:

1. Assign the Midi IN of the Machine Stand Alone Software to the "Hardware IN".

2. Assign the Midi OUT of the Machine Stand Alone Software to "Virtual Out".

This routing will cary the midi - Hardware Machine Out ->Software Machine IN->Logic Physical Input (where the Virtual port must appear).

Create a Standard Instrument in Logic and set its port to "Hardware Machine" as well as create a track in the Arrange where you will record the incoming midi. When play it then it will go out directly to the hardware and all the time you will have thru when select that track.

It must be something like that ...

P.S If the Virtual Machine port does not appear in the Logic Physical Input then you can try the trick using the IAC driver.

Regards,

Vacheto

no, the midi prefs. in the maschine software are really minimal. no midi modes to choose from except for midi-input "omni" or any individual midi channel. that's just to listen to all channels or single out a specific one.

 

but i think maschine isn't the problem. the first steps in the video should get maschine ready to work with any daw. so it's about logic retrieving maschine's messages and again being able to feed it back out to maschine like cubase does in the video

OK, great. Thanks for that info. I believe that you you don't need to do any complicated Environment stuff or IAC. See the attached screen shot. In your Project Settings > MIDI > General tab there is a function called "MIDI Thru". In the instrument without MIDI Thru Function, set it to Maschine. That should prevent a feedback loop and let you run it the way you want.

this sounds plausible, i'm gonna have to read its purpose uo in the manual.

but either way maschine's virtual i/o doesn't appear in the list.

i think i might have to hang on the phone with those germain guys all day tommorow cause its not really working.

hopefully they got a scenario laying around for working with logic in this way.

 

i'll get back on this, thanks for your effort.

You're welcome.

Meanwhile, can you describe what's going on, i.e., how it's not working?

I just found this online:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104163&page=2

Go down to post 21 where "sowari" posted this:

if you want to record notes into Logic, you need to put the Controller into MIDI Mode - by pressing Shift + Control. in this Mode you can trigger Battery from the Maschine Controller.

if you want to record MIDI Notes in Logic from the Controller and play sounds in Maschine, do Shift + Control - as explained above - and also use the Sound to MIDI Setup with a Group in the Maschine Software to select which notes are used to trigger the drum sounds.

Hope that helps.

i read the posts on NI-forum before coming here

they're just guessing and it's really confusing

by pressing shift+midi you bypass the software and it becomes a midi controller like any other and displaying only CC#'s

the video shows it's workings and pressing shift+midi is not mentioned

OK. Thanks for the new info and for updating your other post with the screenshot.

Just curious about a few other things...

1) does Maschine show up in AudioMIDI Setup?

2) does Maschine show up as a port in the Environment? (go to the Clicks & Ports layer and see if there's a label for it on the Physical Input)

3) did you try setting the "instrument without MIDI thru" to "input notes"?

but either way maschine's virtual i/o doesn't appear in the list.

Here I was complicated as well when Ski posted the "instrument without MIDI Thru Function" setting cause your original post is "Is there an ability in Logic to use an instrument as midi thru. So that it can receive and both send at the same time?"

The "instrument without MIDI Thru Function" is opposite of what you want...

Anyway what I saw in the youtube video was "Machine" IN and OUT midi track setting in the Cubase I/O inspector ( I can not see if it is Virtual or Hardware) when the guy recorded note events on the Cubase midi track. In Logic you can try to create a new Instrument + Arrange track and set the Instrument port to the Hardware machine. In other words this track will behave as a regular external Instrument midi track and you will have midi "thru" when the track is selected.

Cause I do not own this equipment I described a way using the Software Editor and the Virtual port in my previous post. My idea was that some Third Party Editors output some messages which control the hardware (say Sys ones).

The midi routing Hardware->Software Editor>Logic>Hardware allows recording both - hardware messages and Software messages (inc. mouse control) to the Logic track etc. Hope see what I mean...

Vacheto

Vacheto, where do you see a place to assign a port to an instrument channel. Did you mean MIDI instrument?

Off course MIDI instrument or you have such option in your Software Instruments in your Logic custom edition ?

When I say "Standard Instrument" it is a Midi instrument ( I think I used this terminology in my previous posts of this topic or you had to read that in my last one).

In other words this track will behave as a regular external Instrument midi track and you will have midi "thru" when the track is selected.

Vacheto

When I say "Standard Instrument" it is a Midi instrument ( I think I used this terminology in my previous posts of this topic or you had to read that in my last one).

Maybe you use this terminology for yourself, but it's not easily understood because it's not standard terminology. We have MIDI instruments, software instruments (instrument channels), and external instruments. So making up your own terminology doesn't really help here.

In other words this track will behave as a regular external Instrument midi track and you will have midi "thru" when the track is selected.

Right. So what we're after here is a representation of the Maschine as a MIDI instrument in Logic's environment. This is why I was asking if it appears in the Audio MIDI setup.

Quote from video:

You also want to make sure that in your sequencer you are able to both recieve midi from maschine as wel as send it back to maschine. This will varie from sequencer to sequencer so you want to consult the documentation that came with your own sequencer.

It is not literately a midi thru connection off course because in record mode it gets information and in playback mode it sends it back. so it's not really broadcasting live from the input to the output otherwise it would cause a midi feedback.

but the setup for the channel/instrument is passing it "thru".

@Scandor:

it does make sense to input information digitally and then output information back externally.

to clear things up my steps are:

On the physical input take "maschine virtual output" connect it to "standard midi instrument".

In the inspector of the of the "standard midi instrument" choose port; "maschine virtual input".

This would make a so to speak midi thru connection?

This would make a so to speak midi thru connection?

What I see in your picture above is the scenario I explained in my first replay of this topic (the previous page). This routing behaves as "direct" - in other words it is independent from track selection, but keep in mind you CAN NOT record events on a Logic track ! It is useful only if want to make some custom midi processing in between the Physical Input and the Standard Instrument object.

In the inspector of the of the "standard midi instrument" choose port; "maschine virtual input".

Do not use this Virtual Input port cause you will make midi feedback ! You must set to the other one "Machine Controller Midi Output port 0" hope this is the hardware one?

To be able to have "thru" read my later posts where I recommended to create a Standard Instrument track in the Arrange ( do not cable the Standard Instrument from anywere ) just set it to "Machine Controller Midi Output port 0" and leave the Click & Ports layer by default everything cabled from the "Sum" pin of the Physical Input.

just set it to "Machine Controller Midi Output port 0" and leave the Click & Ports layer by default everything cabled from the "Sum" pin of the Physical Input.

this still seems like a one way connection, i don't see where the signal is being picked and recorded as midi information.

if what your saying is right than i might have to rethink my strategies and examine this again with NI

at least again thanks for the effort,

this still seems like a one way connection,

Which way? Have a look at the Logic Transport which monitors the midi I/O.

1.When run the Machine do you have incoming notes in Logic which can be recorded on the Standard Instrument track (see the Input View monitor in Click & Ports as well ) ?

2. If you have incoming midi notes and you could record them on the Standard Instrument track (regarding question 1 above) then try to solo and play that midi region ( Have a look again in the Transport if the midi Out is sending events ) during play.

3. Where are routed the Machine Audio outputs - Logic Audio Tracks ? You must think about its audio monitoring/recording as well.

Another scenario is the combination of the hardware midi ports and the virtual ones when use a Stand Alone editors as I said previously. I can not remember exactly, but in the "Old Logic" days some 3th party editors got the physical midi IN so there was a boot app. order and we had to use some virtual midi junctions around such midi setups etc.

In such scenario:

1. Boot the Software Editor and choose the physical hardware device midi IN "Machine Controller Midi Input port 0" and for OUT set "Machine Virtual Input" in the Software Editor midi preferences.

2. In Logic you create the Standard Instrument setup to behave as external midi instrument plus Arrange track and Audio Track(s) (or use the"external" plugin Software Instrument method).

Set the Standard Instrument port to "Machine Controller Midi Output port 0".

This scenario midi routing must be:

Hardware Machine ->Software Editor->(Virtual Port cable)->Logic->Hardware machine as I pointed previously.

Regards,

Vacheto

Jolsen,

I asked you a few questions in a previous post. You answered one, but I'm curious to know...

1) does Maschine show up in AudioMIDI Setup?

if found an artical for registered members on the NI site

NI KNOWLEDGE BASE:

Since - by design - Logic Pro does not support to record or send MIDI data from any loaded instrument or sequencer to another instrument track in order to trigger another synth for instance, we nevertheless can do it using MASCHINE standalone and the virtual MIDI connection of OS X - better known as the IAC driver. The IAC driver can be set up from within the OS X Audio and MIDI setup which is located under Macintosh HD / Applications / Utilities. Here is how it works in detail.

the result is in no ways the same as shown in the video

probably for this same reason the votes on the article are: 83% neg. 16% pos.

You must re-think what they try to say:

Since - by design - Logic Pro does not support to record or send MIDI data from any loaded instrument or sequencer to another instrument track in order to trigger another synth for instance,

Here they are talking about the Maschine AU plugin. Logic AU plugins currently do not support such feature it is VSTi technology.

we nevertheless can do it using MASCHINE standalone and the virtual MIDI connection of OS X - better known as the IAC driver.

This was my idea in the previous posts to use it as Stand Alone and send midi out to Logic via the Virtual Port or the IAC - but you will need one more thing to sync the Machine to the Logic Transport !

To do that you must set Logic to send MIDI clock to drive Maschine in sync - use the Virtual port or the IAC in the Logic Sync Settings ( I'm away of my app right now otherwise could attach some snapshot ).

My advice is to Log into the NI Knowledge base using your Email Maschine registration and read the topic labeled as "How to record MIDI from Maschine standalone in Logic Pro" I just found this topic in the NI k-base in the link below.

http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/#/?q=Maschine&t=Knowledge

My advice is to Log into the NI Knowledge base using your Email Maschine registration and read the topic labeled as "How to record MIDI from Maschine standalone in Logic Pro" I just found this topic in the NI k-base in the link below.

 

http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/#/?q=Maschine&t=Knowledge

Please note that the OP already quoted that article in his previous post..

if found an artical for registered members on the NI site

 

NI KNOWLEDGE BASE:

Since - by design - Logic Pro does not support to record or send MIDI data from any loaded instrument or sequencer to another instrument track in order to trigger another synth for instance, we nevertheless can do it using MASCHINE standalone and the virtual MIDI connection of OS X - better known as the IAC driver. The IAC driver can be set up from within the OS X Audio and MIDI setup which is located under Macintosh HD / Applications / Utilities. Here is how it works in detail.

 

the result is in no ways the same as shown in the video

probably for this same reason the votes on the article are: 83% neg. 16% pos.

I just looked at the article and found the instructions quite clear and simple.

At which point it doesn't work for you?

Logic completely froze for a few seconds and than the midi information recorded looked really weird.

Black notes could be seen in the piano roll which didn't seem to move when dragged.

It could be a lack of memory since that was on my macbook i will try later when ready with my mac pro.

I do have to say monitoring the IAC-bus with "midi-monitor", Maschine doesn't seem to output any midi information into it.

So its getting pretty confusing at the moment.

I really want to confine the topic to just Logic, i'll try to eliminate any NI problems.