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SA5H
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MIDI Issue -- Unwanted Program Changes

Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:43 am

Hi Guys,

When i import midi out of a pack, attach a sound from an AU instrument,
It keeps reverting back to a specific sound on the instrument,

Really trying to clean up the midi so it works with anything but that one sound, ??

Any suggestions,

:cry: :cry:
 
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:36 pm

Check the regions for program change events. A good place to see everything that's inside a region is the event list (select a region, press the E key on your computer keyboard).

J.
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Audiogrocery
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:00 pm

Checking for Program Change events (PC) opening each regions in the Event list takes time to my opinion.
I may offer a fast batch "Destructive" deletion or "Non-Destructive" temporary hiding/clutching the PCs.

1. Destructive delation.
Select all problem regions in the Arrange (in my scenario I hit Cmd+A cause all regions are imported from SMF) and create a Transform Window setting or Template shown in (Fig.1) below. Hit - "Select & Operate" button which will batch delete all PCs of the all regions in one step.
2. Non-Destructive delation - PC Clutching ON.
In this scenario/template (Fig.2) all PCs are transformed to "neutral" messages (Meta Event 0 ...)
3. Non-Destructive recalling - PC Clutching OFF.
In this scenario/template (Fig.3) all transformed/clutched PCs are transformed back to PC in case if you need them.

Another scenario of filtering is to create a Multi Instrument or Standard Instrument in the Environment (a Multi is automatically created or all Midi File regions are placed on its tracks when import any Midi File for example).
1. Add a new Transformer object and set it to "Filter Matching events" - Status -> Program. Cable the transformer from the Multi.
2. Create a new Channel Splitter object and cable it from the Transformer in the chain.
2. Cable the Channel Splitter pins to the Software Instruments you want (it does not matter if they are set to ch.All or any channels cause we use a Direct cabling in this scenario).

A.G

Image
(Fig.1)

Image
(Fig.2)

Image
(Fig.3)
 
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ski
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:18 pm

Clutched?
 
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:27 pm

Clutched?


I'm pretty sure you have got what I mean. Can you offer a better name - I'm serious cause English is not my native and I want to update the method I offer with a proper name like (Dummy transform, Hide/Show etc). What comes first in your mind?

A.G
 
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:31 pm

:lol:

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ski
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Scandor wrote:
Clutched?


I'm pretty sure you have got what I mean. Can you offer a better name - I'm serious cause English is not my native and I want to update the method I offer with a proper name like (Dummy transform, Hide/Show etc). What comes first in your mind?


I don't know what you mean. If I did I wouldn't have asked.

I don't understand what the purpose is of converting program change events to meta events. It seems like needless complication, resulting in events that serve no purpose.

The OP's situation is that the sounds he wants to use are changing, supposedly (he has to confirm) because of p.change events contained in the MIDI files. In that case I think it's easiest just to delete them permanently, don't you?
Last edited by ski on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:36 pm

ski wrote:
I don't know what you mean. If I did I wouldn't have asked.


You know, Ski...clutch. As in "group clutch", hello? :lol:
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:41 pm

Scandor wrote:
What comes first in your mind?


Bypass would be nice, no?

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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:45 pm

In that case I think it's easiest just to delete them permanently, don't you?


Right - that was my FIRST (Fig.1) offer !

I don't understand what the purpose is of converting program change events to meta events.


If you follow me I announced that as a "Non-Destructive" workaround additional method. Let say I will need the original PCs in a later mixing stage to use these regions via some hardware devices etc. In this case I can always use the "Clutch OFF PC" template and convert the neutral PCs into original ones. OK ?

Jordito - what is your emotion - Pro or Amateur? If have any questions be welcome!

A.G
 
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ski
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:49 pm

Scandor wrote:
In that case I think it's easiest just to delete them permanently, don't you?


Right - that was my FIRST (Fig.1) offer !


Indeed! I wasn't questioning that.

Maybe by "clutch" you mean "preserve (but hide)"? Still not sure.
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:54 pm

Bypass would be nice, no?


Thanks for the alternative name! I still prefer "Clutch" as an Author of the Transformer templates and there is nothing relative between "Groups" etc.

BTW. There was no sense to overload the topic with usefulness comments - new ideas are welcome !

A.G
 
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Scandor wrote:
Jordito - what is your emotion - Pro or Amateur? If have any questions be welcome!


I prefer amateurs....with pro's it's usually too obvious they're just faking it.

:roll:

I agree with ski, your proposal is probably more than what the OP needs/wants.
Not everybody is into fooling around in the transform window, you know?
Somehow I suspect the OP is one of them.

J.
Last edited by Jordi Torres on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:57 pm

"preserve (but hide)"? Still not sure.


Definitely.

I guess you are tired - take care ! :wink:

A.G
 
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:10 pm

Somehow I suspect the OP is one of them.


If so, he can get the first "Direct Deletion Template" (Fig.1) which is well shown on the picture. The additional "Templates" of temporary hiding/showing, clutching etc are for users like you who must learn the Transform Power features in depth to "Going Pro" according to some related labels... Meanwhile the additional templates are well shown in Fig2 &3, so do not try to foolish the novices please !

A.G
 
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Jordi Torres
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Scandor wrote:
If so, he can get the first "Direct Deletion Template" (Fig.1) which is well shown on the picture. The additional "Templates" of temporary hiding/showing, clutching etc are for users like you who must learn the Transform Power features in depth to "Going Pro" according to some related labels... Meanwhile the additional templates are well shown in Fig2 &3, so do not try to foolish the novices please !


I know my way around the transform window pretty well and use it when I need to, thank you.

Again, what I'm saying is that not everybody wants to mess with the transform or the environment...even with your nice, step by step guides at their disposal.

J.
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ski
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:01 pm

Me? Tired?
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:13 pm

ski wrote:
Me? Tired?


Me tired!
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Nosce te ipsum
 
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Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:59 pm

what I'm saying is that not everybody wants to mess with the transform or the environment...


I'm sorry? These two editors are the Logic power ! Each editor of the App, is important - if you think that these two scare the novices, just ask Apple to remove them ! And it is not so good to reply of the name of the others !

Regarding my Templates - they are well shown on the pictures and everyone can re-create them and use as the Factory ones - no special knowledge is required here - OK !

Regarding the "Clutch" presets - they are an example of clutching/temporary bypassing some midi events which affect the Logic Channel Strip. You can modify the presets to "Clutch" say CC7(level), CC10(Pan) etc, which will keep the original messages (as a backup) and you can use them any time you need again - in case you need to export some SMF, play the Midi regions via hardware equipment, other DAWs which support such messages etc for example. As I announced these two Transform presets behaves as non-destructive ones.

Once more time - no recommendations regarding the App Editors, Functions etc. Each one has its purpose and the user must decide which workaround to get. The faster and the direct methods are recommended here, as well as non-destructive ones so you can revert to the original any time !

A.G
 
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ski
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Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:19 pm

No one said anything about "novices" except you, Scandor. What Jordito is suggesting is that not everyone wants to deal with Transforms (or the environment), especially when it comes to something simple like deleting program changes.

For deleting numerous p.change events in one operation I think your first example was the best and most helpful. The other two examples are confusing and highly complicated, not just because of your descriptions ("clutch") but the programming of them is difficult to understand. Here we have someone who doesn't know about p.change events, yet you're introducing them to Meta Events?!? And in this case, "dummy" Meta Events?? Also implicit in your Transformer setup is an understanding that p.change events have only one data byte. Unless you really know MIDI, that's not obvious. So again, it's very clever, but not easy to understand. This doesn't make it bad, it's just very complicated.

Now, don't get me wrong, your trick is very clever and I can see it as being very useful! But it's still going to be difficult for beginners to understand, especially the second part: why is it necessary to link data byte 1 and 2? I tried this with no link (straight lines) and got the expected result (see screenshot).
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