deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 This is probably a subjective question, but, is there a certain compressor that is used most often when mixing drums in the studio? DBX 160? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 You need to listen. The instant you ask what tool is the most widely used for a specific application, you're no longer using your ears, and that's the most detrimental thing you can do to your drums AND to your mixing skills... and to the whole fun of the art of mixing. Ask yourself, while listening (those are all rhetorical questions, don't answer them here). What kind of drums? How are they played? Soft? Heavy? In between? Wide dynamic variations? What is the genre? Reggae? Techno? Classic Rock? Heavy Metal? Progressive Rock? Bebop Jazz? How were the drums recorded? Closed mic? Large room sound? How do they sound? What are you trying to achieve? What sound do you want? Why are you using a compressor at all? Do the drums even need compression at all? If yes, for what? For individual kit piece sound sculpting? For drum kit glueing? For dynamic range taming? There are so many applications for a compressor, so many genres, so many drums out there.... it would be a sad day when ONE particular compressor becomes the most often used for all of them. There are no shortcuts, no recipes for becoming a good artist. A photograph has to use his eyes, and a chef his palate. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I truly believe it's the best answer to your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 +1000 to what David said. It's like asking "what's the best guitar, guitar amp, guitar pickup, guitar pedal, etc" Too many variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 But certain compressors are better than others for drums. No? That was kind of my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 But certain compressors are better than others for drums. No? That was kind of my question. Short answer? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 You need to listen. The instant you ask what tool is the most widely used for a specific application, you're no longer using your ears, and that's the most detrimental thing you can do to your drums AND to your mixing skills... and to the whole fun of the art of mixing. Ask yourself, while listening (those are all rhetorical questions, don't answer them here). What kind of drums? How are they played? Soft? Heavy? In between? Wide dynamic variations? What is the genre? Reggae? Techno? Classic Rock? Heavy Metal? Progressive Rock? Bebop Jazz? How were the drums recorded? Closed mic? Large room sound? How do they sound? What are you trying to achieve? What sound do you want? Why are you using a compressor at all? Do the drums even need compression at all? If yes, for what? For individual kit piece sound sculpting? For drum kit glueing? For dynamic range taming? There are so many applications for a compressor, so many genres, so many drums out there.... it would be a sad day when ONE particular compressor becomes the most often used for all of them. There are no shortcuts, no recipes for becoming a good artist. A photograph has to use his eyes, and a chef his palate. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I truly believe it's the best answer to your question. An excellent answer. Very informative. Thanks. I'll try to apply what little knowledge I have with regards to compressors. From what I have read, some compressors are tube-based whereas others are solid state. So, the solid state compressors would be quicker just using common sense. And, more appropriate for drums (i.e. transients)? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 +1000 to what David said. It's like asking "what's the best guitar, guitar amp, guitar pickup, guitar pedal, etc" Too many variables. The best guitar amp is the 1968 Marshall 100 watt Super Lead Plexi. No debate needed. Subjectivity doesn't exist for this amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So, the solid state compressors would be quicker just using common sense. And, more appropriate for drums (i.e. transients)? Beware again of looking for a quick recipe. Why would a quicker compressor be more appropriate? What are you trying to do with your drums? Is there an issue you're trying to solve? Are you trying to shape their sound? Are you trying to tame the transients? Are you looking to give them more punch? Increase the tail? Remove the room sound? Or to make the drums more articulate, more defined? Is this for a kick drum? A snare drum? A hi-hat? A tom? How is it played? Does it sound a bit too aggressive? Or too mellow? You can't bypass the basic workflow: Listen. Determine what needs to be done. Reach for your tools and do it. If you blindly reach for a tool without knowing what your goal is, you're likely to misuse the tool, whatever the tool may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 So, the solid state compressors would be quicker just using common sense. And, more appropriate for drums (i.e. transients)? Beware again of looking for a quick recipe. Why would a quicker compressor be more appropriate? What are you trying to do with your drums? Is there an issue you're trying to solve? Are you trying to shape their sound? Are you trying to tame the transients? Are you looking to give them more punch? Increase the tail? Remove the room sound? Or to make the drums more articulate, more defined? Is this for a kick drum? A snare drum? A hi-hat? A tom? How is it played? Does it sound a bit too aggressive? Or too mellow? You can't bypass the basic workflow: Listen. Determine what needs to be done. Reach for your tools and do it. If you blindly reach for a tool without knowing what your goal is, you're likely to misuse the tool, whatever the tool may be. Very true. I guess I meant more 'punch', but, I can see after what you said it's a lot more complicated than that. The last sentence, 'If you blindly reach for a tool without knowing what your goal is, you're likely to misuse the tool, whatever the tool may be,' is merely Murphy's Law, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Oh and don't use common sense. Use your ears. If a painter used their common sense then they'd use blue for skies, green for grass, yellow for hay, black for shadows.... and the result would be the most boring painting ever made. Instead, GREAT painters used their eyes, their feelings, their senses... reach for greatness – not common sense. http://wwwcdn.artistsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/Claude_Monet_-_Graystaks_I.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Oh and don't use common sense. Use your ears. If a painter used their common sense then they'd use blue for skies, green for grass, yellow for hay, black for shadows.... and the result would be the most boring painting ever made. Instead, GREAT painters used their eyes, their feelings, their senses... reach for greatness – not common sense. http://wwwcdn.artistsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/Claude_Monet_-_Graystaks_I.jpg Well said, but, what about translation when mixing music? No two listening systems sound the same, correct? Therefore, there is no frame of reference. In short, you need numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Well said, but, what about translation when mixing music? No two listening systems sound the same, correct? Therefore, there is no frame of reference. That's a whole 'nother topic IMO. Painters had the same issue where no two rooms are lit the same way – therefore their painting would never be experienced the same way. No artist control 100% of the way their art is being received. You control what you can control, and try not to agonize over the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 The best guitar amp is the 1968 Marshall 100 watt Super Lead Plexi. No debate needed. Subjectivity doesn't exist for this amp. If you want to get the Van Halen 1 sound, the Plexi is just one part of all the ingredients necessary. But look at Eddie now, using his EVH Stealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 The best guitar amp is the 1968 Marshall 100 watt Super Lead Plexi. No debate needed. Subjectivity doesn't exist for this amp. If you want to get the Van Halen 1 sound, the Plexi is just one part of all the ingredients necessary. But look at Eddie now, using his EVH Stealth. His sound is terrible now, too. Fair Warning, 1984....sonic heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Well said, but, what about translation when mixing music? No two listening systems sound the same, correct? Therefore, there is no frame of reference. That's a whole 'nother topic IMO. Painters had the same issue where no two rooms are lit the same way – therefore their painting would never be experienced the same way. No artist control 100% of the way their art is being received. You control what you can control, and try not to agonize over the rest. That's why you need numbers...visuals....when mixing music. So there is some agreement on what is what. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 That's why you need numbers...visuals....when mixing music. So there is some agreement on what is what. Correct? No, not in my opinion at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 So if a piece of audio is digitally clipping 'numerically', but you, or someone else, cannot hear it, then it is okay? I would think it wouldn't be okay but I honestly do not know. How do you know the digitally clipped audio will not show up on an even superior sound system that has finer detail sonically? In short, the numbers tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So if a piece of audio is digitally clipping 'numerically', but you, or someone else, cannot hear it, then it is okay? I would think it wouldn't be okay but I honestly do not know. How do you know the digitally clipped audio will not show up on an even superior sound system that has finer detail sonically? In short, the numbers tell you. Ok, obviously I wouldn't recommend digitally clipping a mix... just like a painter wouldn't continue painting outside the canvas. You work within the frame. If that's what you meant then yes, I agree that you have to know the limits of what you're working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 I think with my original question I was hoping there would be an 'easy fix' to mixing drums. Like adding a particular compressor. In short, I can never get sampled drums, like in SSD4 for example, to sound like real drums. No matter how hard I try. Is it even possible, in your opinion? To get sampled drums to sound like real drums? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 In short, the numbers tell you. Remember that some of the best music was recorded 30 -20 years ago with analogue consoles, equipment and 2-inch tape. We still marvel at it nowadays. They didn't have any of the digital information overload regarding bit depth, sample rate, intersample peak and this and that graph of digital accurateness and blah blah blah. Good recording habits, mostly very good performances, and mixing with their ears. Oh, and no flex time and flex pitch, little detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Is it even possible, in your opinion? To get sampled drums to sound like real drums? Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Is it even possible, in your opinion? To get sampled drums to sound like real drums? Never. Why so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Once you mic up a full drum kit with 16 mics in a studio you hear the difference. Real drums are thicker and have way more punch and attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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