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How loud a master should be for radio ?


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Hi,

 

Everything is in the title. I recently sent a master to a local radio and they told me, it wasn't loud enough. I asked them, how loud should it be but they told me my question was too technical for them ... They know it's not loud enough but they don't how much louder should it be ... Anyway.

 

Is there a usual loudness (in LUFS) for radio like there's for Spotify or YouTube ? I guess there's not one number and that's it but an approximation would help a lot.

 

Thanks

 

PS: The file I sent them was at - 14 LUFS more or less

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That or lower will work fine on most radio stations. Certainly it's more than loud enough for any radio station in the world that applies even a minimum of post processing.

 

Radio stations use a media database like Dalet with lossy compressed files, typically lowered several LUS below -14 LUFS (I) before going into the broadcast chain.

 

Their comment doesn't make any sense without further qualification. The fact that they couldn't explain why is an indication of bullshit. I'd push them on this statement and see what comes up. Even with modest processing -14 LUFS (I) is plenty loud, and in fact many stations will prefer a lower version than the digital release version. I routinely make much lower version specifically for radio on request for major acts and major labels.

 

Although many stations primarily use an Orban Optimod (and other processing) it's set up differently between stations. Once you get close to -7 or -6 LUFS (I), or god forbid louder, then the way that loudness was obtained at the mastering chain constantly messes with the broadcast processing.

 

One of the reasons is that the cascaded phase rotators don't appreciate a clipped or flat-topped signal.

 

However, loudness is not just a number, it depends as much on the priorities in the arrangement, production and mix (and mastering). Clear priorities will make a track pop out a lot more regardless of the LUFS measurement.

 

So could it be that they checked out the track post broadcast processing and felt it didn't work well on air for other reasons in the arrangement priorities/production/mix/master? Or since they sound like amateurs (sorry), could it be that they're expecting tracks to be very loud and they don't understand what's actually going on in their own processing chain?

 

If the production is tight then a good rule of thumb is that the same things you need to be aware of when mastering for vinyl are the same things you need to be especially aware of on air:

 

Don't mess with the low end phase, be mindful of overall phase and stereo issues, and most importantly keep the sibilants and high end in check, and don't clip or limit the master flat.

 

PS. I see you're in France. France is actually one of the few countries where they tried to implement the EBU R128 standard for radio as well as on TV (where the standard now prevails in the EU), but I don't know what happened to the radio part in France. Guess it didn't happen or made sense for radio with -23 LUFS (I).

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Thanks for your answer ! My file was actually around - 17 LUFS and not - 14 LUFS. Yes i'm in France and you do have the R128 but I had no clue it was supposed to be implemented in the radio part too.

Good news, i'm going to send them a master less compress than expected ! Maybe a little above -14 just to be sure, it will be enough.

 

They are amateur to me too as you just said. What happened is they make my master louder themselves and when it went on air, it sounded distorted. Since it's the first time something I made is aired I must admit i'm not 100% sure it's their fault.

 

What do you mean by "don't clip or limit the master flat" ?

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What do you mean by "don't clip or limit the master flat" ?

 

Not wanting to hijack Mr Lagerfeldt's flawless explanation, but make sure your Stereo Out has not red lights. Put the output of your last Limiter at -0.3 to avoid potential digital clips.

-14 LUFS is perfect. It can hit -13 or -12 here and there, so don't sweat it. Avoid clipping and brickwall compression.

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Oh ok, I wasn't sure it was that. I use a True Peak limiter set to - 1 dB TP to avoid any clipping. No red lights of any king.

 

No need to put it at -1 if your mix is relatively well gain staged, mean you don't have crazy peaks all over the place.

Try -0.3.

It will be louder and the radio guys will like it better.

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Did you verify the file didn't have normalise or any other process applied to it? Even though your mix is metering ok in Logic it's possible that something happened in the export process so load the exported file back in to a new project to verify it.

 

Also, how did you send? Did you upload the file to a cloud platform which may have applied a conversation of any sorts?

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No need to put it at -1 if your mix is relatively well gain staged, mean you don't have crazy peaks all over the place.

Try -0.3.

It will be louder and the radio guys will like it better.

 

No it’s under control. The highest peaks I have are limited by 1 or 2 dB most of the time. 3 or 4 Max.

 

The EBU R128 recommands to set it at - 1dB that’s why I do that. But maybe this applies only to broadcast I don’t know.

 

I’ll try at - 0,3 you’re right. They’re gonna like better like that ! Ahah

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Did you verify the file didn't have normalise or any other process applied to it? Even though your mix is metering ok in Logic it's possible that something happened in the export process so load the exported file back in to a new project to verify it.

 

Also, how did you send? Did you upload the file to a cloud platform which may have applied a conversation of any sorts?

 

I asked for the file they use to air the track and listen to it in Logic. I don’t know if it was normalized but it’s louder and sounds nothing like the file I gave them.

 

It sounds saturated and I can definitely hear digital clipping that don’t exist in my version.

 

When I asked what they did to the file they told me they boosted it a little in ... Audacity.

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It sounds saturated and I can definitely hear digital clipping that don’t exist in my version.

 

When I asked what they did to the file they told me they boosted it a little in ... Audacity.

 

There you go, pretty obvious why it sounds like it does.

 

Make sure you have Normalize set to Off when you bounce.

And shoot for -13 or -12.

That way they don't use Audacity later to boost it.

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  • 2 years later...
Sure ! I don’t even understand why normalization still exists ! I’ve never found a proper way to use it !!!

 

Thanks a lot for this very interesting chat.

 

Remember that the bounce process is not only for mastered songs. You can work on a loop with different layers, for example, and then you want to bounce it so you can use it later on and that doesn't mean that the loop will be peaking at -0.1dB inside the song you will be using it, it could be at -15dB, while the audio itself is normalized to -0.1dB

Does it make sense?

 

One thing I wish Logic had was an option to pick the value we want to normalize it to. For example I'm in the process of converting all my loops and samples to peak at around -12dB so when I'm working on a song, they are already low enough to give me headroom to work, so this exporting option would be a good addition

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